JogAmp IRC Chat Logs

#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20130423 05:06:34 (UTC)

20130423 05:06:34 -CatOut- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20130422050620.html
20130423 05:06:34 -CatOut- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20130423050634.html
20130423 06:14:33 * DemoscenePassiv (~Lutsche@anon) has joined #jogamp
20130423 06:43:08 * DemoscenePassiv (~Lutsche@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20130423 08:40:50 <sgothel> while fixing the crosscompile options cmake etc .. validating shows me ubuntu's crosscompile doesn't produce reliable binaries, i.e. -march=armv6 -> ELF v7 header .. 'sometimes'
20130423 08:40:59 <sgothel> 'I had it' ..
20130423 08:41:23 <sgothel> @Xerxes: howto get a reliable debian armel/armhf crosscompiler ?
20130423 08:54:35 * [Mike] (~Mike]@anon) Quit ()
20130423 08:59:38 <xranby> sgothel: are you using ubuntu or linaros cross compile toolchain?
20130423 09:00:08 <sgothel> no .. was using ubuntu, and it seems I am not alone - http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2011/11/msg00043.html
20130423 09:00:22 <sgothel> testing emdebian stable ones now .. ih
20130423 09:00:24 <sgothel> *uh*
20130423 09:00:32 <sgothel> (on wheezy .. yeah)
20130423 09:01:00 <sgothel> good that I have all those flavors already installed and prepared on test machine :)
20130423 09:02:11 <sgothel> note: openal-soft produce now x32 binaries .. working on the arm stuff now
20130423 09:03:02 <xranby> sgothel: when we tweaked the jogl and gluegen natives we ran into the issue of linking in the armv7 libc functions
20130423 09:03:26 <sgothel> ?
20130423 09:03:33 <sgothel> gcc static ?
20130423 09:03:48 <sgothel> 'issue of linking in the armv7 libc functions' ?
20130423 09:03:53 <xranby> yes
20130423 09:04:05 <sgothel> 'only' gcc - static .. hmm
20130423 09:04:10 <sgothel> not libc
20130423 09:04:42 <sgothel> can you elaborate ?
20130423 09:05:33 <xranby> libgcc is tainted (contains armv7 instr)
20130423 09:05:48 <sgothel> on ubuntu .. ?
20130423 09:06:12 <xranby> yes, since the ubuntu cross compiler links against this armv7 lib
20130423 09:06:22 <sgothel> testing building on debian now .. builds on rasp-pi
20130423 09:06:37 <sgothel> yup .. ubuntu no more < armv7
20130423 09:06:56 <xranby> ubuntu armel == armv5 ubuntu armhf == armv7
20130423 09:07:39 <xranby> in some ubuntu armel releases like precise armel == armv7
20130423 09:08:09 <xranby> they dropped armel down to armv5 for quantal
20130423 09:08:22 <xranby> and have stopped providing armel binarys in raring
20130423 09:08:52 <xranby> so the next ubuntu release will only contain armhf armv7+
20130423 09:09:00 <xranby> ok to solve your issue
20130423 09:09:18 <xranby> you may use the libgcc from rasbian armhf and debian armel'
20130423 09:09:30 <xranby> rasbian armhf == armv6
20130423 09:09:56 <xranby> you may also pass some flag to gcc that makes it dynalically link in the system libgcc
20130423 09:09:58 <sgothel> it is a multiarch-crossgcc mess tbh ..
20130423 09:10:19 <sgothel> multiarch cross gcc setup should do all this by selecting the target arch
20130423 09:10:34 <sgothel> but yeah, thx .. I will consider this while fiddling w/ it ..
20130423 09:12:55 <xranby> (11:10:32) sgothel: it is a multiarch-crossgcc mess tbh .. <--- all arm linux developers agree
20130423 09:12:57 <sgothel> yeah, emdebian's cross gcc cannot do hard :(
20130423 09:13:17 <sgothel> so whats the f** problem setting on up for all in the distros ?
20130423 09:13:24 <xranby> embeddian is way old
20130423 09:13:30 <xranby> avoid
20130423 09:13:43 <xranby> i think it target OABI that is pre-armel EABI
20130423 09:13:45 <sgothel> no f* excuse .. the papers are there .. ubuntu did it, debian didn't ..
20130423 09:14:09 <sgothel> ok .. will do produce the damn thing, hopefully Dan Kegel's scripts still work :)
20130423 09:17:54 <sgothel> http://kegel.com/crosstool/ .. the old stuff used around 2000-2007 or so ..
20130423 09:18:41 <xranby> i love his http://kegel.com/academy/opensource.html - Contributing to Open Source Projects HOWTO
20130423 09:18:47 <xranby> for me that was a real primer
20130423 09:19:45 <sgothel> so this crosstools is no more maintained .. guess I have to follow the debian papers .. oh dear
20130423 09:19:46 <xranby> it teached me to send minimal patches
20130423 09:19:56 <xranby> without extra cruft
20130423 09:22:44 <sgothel> http://crosstool-ng.org/
20130423 09:25:53 <xranby> sgothel: the whole cross compile setup mess is why i run native compiles
20130423 09:26:49 <xranby> if you ask ubuntu developers they prefer to "cross compile" ubuntu packages using a arm qemu system
20130423 09:26:59 <xranby> thus avoiding the issue
20130423 09:27:08 <xranby> of doing real cross compilations
20130423 09:27:10 <sgothel> if you ask me: *nuts*
20130423 09:27:56 <sgothel> this is like pushing complexity fwd while adding an exponential function to it :)
20130423 09:28:20 <sgothel> same w/ the error actually
20130423 09:31:02 <sgothel> good thing: getting rid of ubuntu as a dependency of our build chain!
20130423 09:38:38 <xranby> do you think the dependency chain is small enough that we may produce builds inside the cloud? that is easy to setup and easy to deploy the build nodes on any server
20130423 09:39:00 <sgothel> 'cloud' lol
20130423 09:39:12 <sgothel> we already have it in our 'cloud' :)
20130423 09:39:40 <sgothel> a simplified node setup via an image plus install script ?
20130423 09:39:59 <xranby> i am a bit worried that we may not be able to produce builds if your node setup goes offline for some unknown reason
20130423 09:40:14 <xranby> well it will take some effort to replicate the current setup
20130423 09:40:49 <sgothel> again - I like to share the knowledge and welcome everybody here to share the burden of setup etc
20130423 09:40:54 <sgothel> yes .. it does
20130423 09:41:03 <sgothel> yes, I would love to have it scripted to
20130423 09:41:18 <sgothel> the jogamp-scripting contains most of the magic
20130423 09:41:32 <sgothel> easy: linux / osx .. hard: windows
20130423 09:41:43 <sgothel> b/c of ssh/cygwin setup etc
20130423 09:42:33 <sgothel> the linux nodes can be easily scripted and a node trigger to e.g. evil-amazon-cloud is possible
20130423 09:42:51 <sgothel> I did this once in another project .. however, we don't use that right now
20130423 09:43:18 <sgothel> but the biggest point here is: make 'sven' redundant! and it is important
20130423 09:43:49 <sgothel> hence the jogamp-scripting etc .. Mark know many stuff already .. while working on maven I guess
20130423 09:44:01 <sgothel> Rami knows a little .. jenkins setup etc
20130423 09:44:21 <sgothel> best would be to reproduce parts (maybe start w/ a node) ..
20130423 09:44:46 <sgothel> guess why I try to linger folks on the server ?
20130423 09:45:34 <sgothel> right now Mark for sure has the expertise to maintain the server, rami maybe too (but no time) ..
20130423 09:45:42 <sgothel> you are willing to join ? !!
20130423 09:46:14 <xranby> i am willing to try setup a mirror jenkins master and check if it can fly
20130423 09:46:29 <xranby> i have machines here that is on 24/7
20130423 09:46:34 <sgothel> you have access to our jenkins cfg files ..
20130423 10:16:18 <sgothel> Xerxes: if you like to help - you could provide a working crosstools filesystem, i.e. be our crosstools maintainer ? I looked at Linaro - they just offer 4.7 builds (4.7 is not stable) .. and last year builds of 4.6 .. not multi-arch .. hmm digging a bit while building own crosstools
20130423 10:17:16 <sgothel> so we need the softfp-armv5te + hardfp-armv6 toolchain, i.e. one for all - or one for each
20130423 10:18:15 <xranby> i think we need to do one for each
20130423 10:18:57 <xranby> one softfp armv5te cross compile setup
20130423 10:19:02 <sgothel> 'need' ? one-for-all, i.e. multiarch via cmdline option, would be awesome ofc
20130423 10:22:31 <xranby> have you seen anyone do this? for example when linaro/ubuntu speak of cross compile multiarch setup https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/CrossCompile/UsingMultiArch then they are actually using qemu under the hood
20130423 10:23:09 <sgothel> default i386/amd64 does it even on debian :)
20130423 10:23:15 <xranby> thus its only a way to to native compiles inside an emulated qemu system using sbuild
20130423 10:23:19 <sgothel> debian has multiarch setup pages
20130423 10:23:29 <sgothel> *bull*
20130423 10:25:20 <sgothel> well, crosstools-ng have it marked experimental .. testing w/ 'one for each' now .. in the end, just want to be able to create tools and use them, not saving the world today :)
20130423 10:26:18 <sgothel> good to know linaro uses qemu - so better avoid such a beast
20130423 11:32:37 * gouessej (546051e4@anon) has joined #jogamp
20130423 11:32:42 <gouessej> hi
20130423 11:34:19 <xranby> gouessej: hello
20130423 11:34:39 <gouessej> I have written a bug report about my problem in NEWT
20130423 11:34:46 <gouessej> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=723
20130423 11:34:52 <xranby> gouessej: i agree with you, java on firefox os looks sad
20130423 11:35:24 <gouessej> Is it worth a try?
20130423 11:36:48 <xranby> the device got webgl so under the hood drivers are present.
20130423 11:37:00 <gouessej> it's interesting
20130423 11:37:05 <xranby> but apart from that... you will have to figt the os to get any natives installed
20130423 11:37:07 <gouessej> Mozilla favors WebGL
20130423 11:38:03 <xranby> yes, and they try convince all c / c++ developers to use emscriptem to convert their code to javascript
20130423 11:38:33 <gouessej> they tried to convince me to convert my Java code into Javascript with emscripten
20130423 11:38:43 <gouessej> I won't do that
20130423 11:38:47 <sgothel> ridiculous :)
20130423 11:38:53 <gouessej> it is quite paradoxical
20130423 11:39:10 <gouessej> it is "open" but you have to fight against the OS to do what you want
20130423 11:39:15 <sgothel> I just had my 1st extensive java-script experience .. and it's quite horrible
20130423 11:39:28 <sgothel> are those phones 'locked' ?
20130423 11:39:32 <gouessej> the JPEG thingy?
20130423 11:39:35 <sgothel> i.e. can you install stuff ?
20130423 11:39:36 <sgothel> yes
20130423 11:40:01 <sgothel> complex projects w/ fuzzy types .. OMG
20130423 11:40:01 <xranby> sgothel: there is no official way to install any native binary
20130423 11:40:35 <sgothel> well .. then .. none for use - don't wanne conquer the world :)
20130423 11:40:57 <gouessej> I'm sad to say that but if this OS becomes a poisoned present for the open source community, I'll have to hope it will be a major failure
20130423 11:41:05 <xranby> sgothel: firefox os packaged applications consists of offline html pages stored in a zip file
20130423 11:41:27 <xranby> these packaged application can get access to some additional interfaces like gps etc using html
20130423 11:41:39 <gouessej> xranby: Mozilla tries to revolutionize the packaging! Wow a ZIP file
20130423 11:44:39 <gouessej> Is there the same problem with Tizen?
20130423 11:44:59 <xranby> dont know yet.. tizen AFAIK uses deb packages
20130423 11:45:16 <xranby> so in tizen world native applications are still a posibility
20130423 11:45:37 <xranby> i dan no trouble running native code under tizen
20130423 11:45:42 <xranby> using their 1.0 SDK
20130423 11:45:51 <xranby> i had no trouble...
20130423 11:46:46 <gouessej> fine
20130423 11:47:13 <gouessej> on which smartphone have you tested Tizen?
20130423 11:49:05 <xranby> i ran it under the tizen emulator : like this: http://labb.zafena.se/?p=490
20130423 11:50:19 <xranby> tizen used a regular X11 system under the hood so a generic X11 Linux build of OpenJDK worked to launch the applet inside the emulator
20130423 11:51:15 <gouessej> very nice
20130423 11:51:41 <gouessej> sgothel: Do you have an idea for the bug 723?
20130423 11:52:51 <xranby> gouessej: i need to take a closer look, to check if i can run say jake2 in combination with jogl after 4 april
20130423 11:53:30 <gouessej> simply run TUER if you can't run Jake 2
20130423 11:53:45 <gouessej> TUER uses the aggregated build of April 11th
20130423 11:54:08 <gouessej> the bug concerns F* keys, arrow keys and numpad keys
20130423 11:58:16 <xranby> i will test using http://jogamp.org/deployment/archive/master/gluegen_662-joal_425-jogl_957-jocl_776/archive/jogamp-all-platforms.7z
20130423 11:59:38 <xranby> gouessej: i agree arrowkeys are broken using that build
20130423 12:00:01 <xranby> so... lets take a closer look
20130423 12:00:11 <gouessej> which kind of keyboard do you use?
20130423 12:00:24 <gouessej> I don't know all keyboard layouts :s
20130423 12:00:50 <sgothel> def: EN_US, testing w/ DE
20130423 12:00:51 <xranby> X11 AWT
20130423 12:00:57 <xranby> swedish layout
20130423 12:06:04 <gouessej> ok thanks
20130423 12:06:18 <gouessej> DE = QWERTZ?
20130423 12:12:14 <xranby> let see.. one possibility is that the game code needs recompilation in order to pick up the new VK numbers
20130423 12:17:37 <xranby> gouessej: jake2 work here if i simply recompile the source
20130423 12:17:57 <xranby> against the new jogl jar's
20130423 12:25:33 <xranby> gouessej: javac have cache the old value of the VK static final value
20130423 12:25:40 <xranby> inside your game
20130423 12:27:03 <gouessej> ok
20130423 12:27:56 <xranby> i belive that is the issue
20130423 12:28:16 <gouessej> But how can I solve this issue?
20130423 12:29:45 <gouessej> I recompiled my game several times
20130423 12:29:58 <gouessej> I perform a clean and build at each time
20130423 12:30:07 <gouessej> and I don't use AWT, only NEWT
20130423 12:31:25 <xranby> gouessej: which code value do you get for arrow up?
20130423 12:31:29 <gouessej> Ok maybe you're right. I compile Ardor3D against a different version of JOGL
20130423 12:32:06 <gouessej> I use JOGL from April 4th when compiling Ardor3D and JOGL from April 11th when compiling my game
20130423 12:32:32 <gouessej> Ardor3D uses Maven, I need another Maven build to make it work
20130423 12:33:09 <sgothel> sounds like it's solved -> invalid - good :) .. yes, all VK values have changed (but a-z and 0-9)
20130423 12:33:42 <gouessej> Please can you mush another build on Maven?
20130423 12:33:46 <gouessej> "push"
20130423 12:35:32 <gouessej> I can't use a version of JOGL not pushed in Maven without tinkering Maven cache if I want to make it work :s
20130423 12:40:59 <gouessej> Ok I have to leave. I will update my bug report tonight but I would feel better if I could confirm that everything works as expected on my machines.
20130423 12:41:09 * gouessej (546051e4@anon) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
20130423 12:44:13 <xranby> ok firefox is official the new apple, they have a pretty though list of criteria to pass if you want an app to appear inside their walled garden https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Apps/Publishing/Marketplace_review_criteria?redirectlocale=en-US&redirectslug=Apps%2FMarketplace_review_criteria#Content
20130423 12:48:47 <sgothel> I guess Tizen w/ that Swedish company and Samsung offer a good free option ? no ?
20130423 12:49:04 <sgothel> Yola ? Dunno ..
20130423 12:49:11 <xranby> jolla might be good yes
20130423 12:49:30 <xranby> tizen might be good
20130423 12:49:36 <xranby> ubuntu phone might be good
20130423 12:49:50 <sgothel> .. and Samsung uses it as well, or a similar approach - Chinese manufacturers seems to work on it as well
20130423 12:50:13 <sgothel> I have to admit .. I stopped 'liking' the 'ubuntu' space :)
20130423 12:50:41 <xranby> sgothel: i have noticed , i guess its because their default amazon spy mode?
20130423 12:50:57 <sgothel> plus their 'wanne be evil-google' mode as well (Mir, etc)
20130423 12:51:23 <sgothel> yes, google is another bitter candy .. but you cannot avoid them [yet] :)
20130423 12:52:28 <sgothel> i.e. all have in common to avoid a proper process .. do things behind closed doors .. google is special, they even play political world domination trick (-> CEO)
20130423 12:53:04 <xranby> sgothel: so when do we release jogamp os?
20130423 12:53:20 <sgothel> lol
20130423 12:53:49 <sgothel> just trying to avoid ugly lock-ins like 'where did the compilers go?' :)
20130423 12:55:10 <sgothel> first crosstools-ng test was Ok'ish - missed some atomic-ops symbols, trying w/ gcc 4.3 now
20130423 12:55:31 <sgothel> -> gcc 4.6
20130423 12:56:06 <sgothel> (skipping gcj, fortran .. just gcc/g++ for now)
20130423 13:18:01 <sgothel> armv6hf-unknown-linux-gnueabi: works
20130423 13:20:53 <xranby> excellent!
20130423 13:21:31 <sgothel> so our node will use debian7 + crosstools-ng for arm*
20130423 13:22:10 <sgothel> will dump the toolchain to jogamp later .. and the crosstools-ng configs in jogamp-scripting
20130423 17:32:15 * gouessej (52794f03@anon) has joined #jogamp
20130423 17:32:27 <gouessej> hi
20130423 17:33:09 <gouessej> xranby thanks for the pointer
20130423 17:33:36 <gouessej> TUER can't be put into Mozilla's marketplace
20130423 17:38:29 <gouessej> Can someone tell me how to override a dependency in Maven and use my JARs instead of another artifact?
20130423 17:38:38 <gouessej> I would like to close the bug report 723
20130423 17:38:50 * [Mike] (~Mike]@anon) has joined #jogamp
20130423 17:41:01 <rmk0> gouessej: the easiest (and worst) way to do it is to temporarily copy your jar file over the one in your local cache
20130423 17:41:39 <gouessej> lol that's what I do, I have to rename my files, etc... :s
20130423 17:41:44 <rmk0> hehe
20130423 17:42:00 <rmk0> a better but more involved way is to deploy your jar file into a local repository and tell maven to use that
20130423 17:42:10 <gouessej> Look at that: http://stackoverflow.com/a/364188
20130423 17:42:20 <gouessej> Is it what you mean?
20130423 17:42:50 <rmk0> hm... didn't know it supported that!
20130423 17:43:31 <gouessej> I hope it will work. I have other bugs to fix
20130423 18:24:28 * DemoscenePassiv (~Lutsche@anon) has joined #jogamp
20130423 18:27:39 <gouessej> I have a compile error because VK_KANA and VK_KANJI are missing :s
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20130423 18:42:23 <gouessej> Ok it works fine now
20130423 18:42:30 <gouessej> I'm going to close the bug 723
20130423 19:08:11 * gouessej (52794f03@anon) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
20130423 20:11:48 <sgothel> testing toolchain on devices (panda armv7 sf+hf, ras-pi armv6 hf)
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20130423 22:15:23 <sgothel> gluegen and joal: OK
20130423 22:29:25 <sgothel> jogamp-scripting: OK
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20130423 23:05:50 <sgothel> jogl: looks good as well ..
20130423 23:10:09 <sgothel> one more test on a armv7-hf pandaboard .. then I will reconnect the node and build
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20130424 02:52:56 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/ .. contains linux-arm toolchain build and user-libs w/ proper arm section version, i.e. not higher than desired build.
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20130424 05:05:47 -CatOut- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20130424050547.html