#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20130910 05:06:11 (UTC)
20130910 05:06:11 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20130909050611.html
20130910 05:06:11 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20130910050611.html
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20130910 09:20:27 <sgothel> good morning
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20130910 13:12:07 <monsieur_max> sgothel: i suppose you already know of this one, but just in case : http://www.robovm.org/
20130910 13:12:52 <monsieur_max> it's not the same approach than ji gong, but worth mentionning the effort :)
20130910 13:21:38 <sgothel> yes ..
20130910 14:51:30 <dfj> what is ji doing?
20130910 15:11:26 <monsieur_max> "stuff"
20130910 15:12:36 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/SW_Tracking_Report_Objectives_for_the_release_2.1.0#Ji_Gong
20130910 15:12:48 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=790
20130910 15:13:22 <sgothel> sort of a political drive to determine and ensure availability of something JVM'ish :)
20130910 15:13:50 <sgothel> currently having tested openjdk8 modularization ..
20130910 15:14:23 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=792
20130910 15:14:56 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/git/?p=users/sgothel/jigong.git;a=summary
20130910 15:15:33 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/git/?p=jigong.git;a=summary
20130910 15:17:18 <monsieur_max> sgothel: " Further more, certain modules like graphics and sound shall be tackled by other projects designated to this task, i.e. JOAL and JOGL .. etc." :-> i see .....
20130910 15:17:58 <sgothel> yes, it is orthogonal to JogAmp's modules, but could be essential to deploy your app w/ JogAmp ..
20130910 15:18:56 <sgothel> while Ji Gong still follows OpenJDK and the JVM principle in general .. it may still not work w/ iOS, where robovm is a [legal] solution.
20130910 15:19:26 <sgothel> but the point here is to have some JVM mechanism for any platform, will work on it .. spare time
20130910 15:19:42 <sgothel> the browser plugin w/o AWT .. will be something for me next to do ..
20130910 15:20:21 <monsieur_max> i'm not getting the whole idea behind the project, you'll still need a runtime environment for the targt platforms, and it's probably an horrid amount of work , non ?
20130910 15:20:29 <monsieur_max> *no ?
20130910 15:20:38 <sgothel> -> openjdk8
20130910 15:21:13 <sgothel> it's like we have the legal right to provide the modularized openjdk8 builds ..
20130910 15:21:22 <sgothel> and the knowledge
20130910 15:21:27 <sgothel> both gives us the freedom
20130910 15:21:35 <monsieur_max> i'm not too comforatble with such architecture topic, sorry, imagine you're talking to a 8 yo boy :)
20130910 15:21:38 <sgothel> and ensure high availability
20130910 15:21:56 <sgothel> have you read the bug description ?
20130910 15:22:25 <monsieur_max> well, yes ... but maybe another read is necessary
20130910 15:22:27 <sgothel> motivation is from bug 698
20130910 15:22:57 <sgothel> i.e. you simply do not have openjdk builds for your devices .. and you may think it's not legal
20130910 15:22:59 <monsieur_max> i missed this on
20130910 15:23:01 <monsieur_max> *one
20130910 15:23:14 <sgothel> we may have solved this issue by reading some responses .. i.e. openjdk usage is allowed
20130910 15:23:55 <sgothel> so we merely target to build openjdk8 headless .. with certain 'profiles' .. on supported mobile/desktop platforms to be used w/ jogamp
20130910 15:24:32 <sgothel> and make it usable .. to ensure you we have the knowledge to use free software, regardless of Oracle blessing
20130910 15:24:50 <sgothel> usable tech offspin shall be: the 'exe bundle' and 'headless plugin'
20130910 15:26:00 <sgothel> if OpenJDK would simply provide reliable builds for all platforms .. we wouldn't need this idea (i.e. like firefox).
20130910 15:28:04 <sgothel> so .. 796 + 799 would mean new code and features to current situation
20130910 15:35:17 <monsieur_max> ok, i'm slowly starting to get the whole story
20130910 15:36:15 <sgothel> probably need it's own wiki page .. but we just started to brainstorm this thing
20130910 15:36:41 <monsieur_max> yes, of course, but it already has been a lot of brain work, obviously
20130910 15:37:21 <sgothel> .. just not the good public overview .. so such questions would not come up, but will do so at a later time
20130910 15:37:33 <sgothel> sure .. if you like to .. you are welcome
20130910 15:40:11 <monsieur_max> well, i already had enough trouble trying to just understand this. I'm way way far from the skills and knowledge you all have :) I'm more a classic java dev, using without questionning the whole technology
20130910 15:40:37 <monsieur_max> i was not even aware of that : "Note: Bug 698 sadly wasn't being replied to by neither Oracle nor the OpenJDK team.
20130910 15:40:37 <monsieur_max> Of course, no surprise here, since for Oracle it might be a conflict of interest
20130910 15:40:37 <monsieur_max> due to their 'goals' to market their ARM hotspot proprietary solution
20130910 15:40:37 <monsieur_max> and the OpenJDK team consist mainly of Oracle and RedHat members.
20130910 15:40:37 <monsieur_max> The latter focuses on server solutions and is highly cooperating w/ Oracle. "
20130910 15:41:07 <sgothel> not technology, but more the availability of the JVM technology is Ji Gongs focus.
20130910 15:41:30 <sgothel> very good, will add this .. hmm :)
20130910 15:41:37 <monsieur_max> haha :)
20130910 15:42:37 <monsieur_max> well, maybe i can help, by ensuring that "ji gong for dummies" is understandable by anyone :P
20130910 15:42:50 <sgothel> awesome
20130910 15:43:03 <sgothel> may I send you your wiki account ? your email ?
20130910 15:43:08 <monsieur_max> what an enthusiastic
20130910 15:43:22 <sgothel> hehe .. thx to you
20130910 15:43:35 <monsieur_max> yeah i already got all that, hodling this like the key to the forbidden library
20130910 15:44:09 <sgothel> :)
20130910 15:45:00 * dfj wonders what happened to IBM - they seem to be keeping their heads down for the last few years.
20130910 15:45:34 <sgothel> yes .. they were the other force w/ Apache's thingy .. but joined Oracle ..
20130910 15:46:07 <sgothel> food shopping .. back in 1-2 hours .. laters
20130910 15:46:17 <monsieur_max> later
20130910 15:50:39 <dfj> yeah - IBM cares not about embedded-land.
20130910 15:52:09 <dfj> Google fought for android, but it didn't get much for folks who aren't google.
20130910 15:52:36 <dfj> and apple... yeah.
20130910 15:54:24 <dfj> So - I see the issue, but I do'nt immediately see how the modularization helps.
20130910 15:54:55 <dfj> oh - still need to skim 796, 799
20130910 15:55:29 <monsieur_max> well, i guess that the whole purpose is to build step by step stripped out versions of the jdk
20130910 15:58:36 <dfj> ah - wait... almost get it.
20130910 15:59:25 <monsieur_max> hard to enter the brains of sgothel and gouessej :P
20130910 15:59:56 <monsieur_max> i'm off, later
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20130910 16:00:17 <dfj> this would let applications link in a minimal jrt, and only the modules needed else-wise, so a full jre would no longer be forced.
20130910 16:01:54 <dfj> not certain how this gets around oracle, but the application doesn't need to claim Java(tm) compatibility... so many issues are mooted.
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20130911 05:06:11 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20130911050611.html