#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20140222 05:05:46 (UTC)

20140222 05:05:46 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140221050546.html
20140222 05:05:46 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140222050546.html
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20140222 06:54:18 <phao> Hey sgothel, how do other computer graphics people you know react when you they find out you're doing opengl in java, and not in C or C++.
20140222 06:54:54 <sgothel> good morning phao
20140222 06:55:00 <phao> =)
20140222 06:55:02 <sgothel> a trick question ?
20140222 06:55:03 <phao> morning
20140222 06:55:19 <phao> Well, it wasn't meant to be. =)
20140222 06:55:36 <sgothel> nobody really cares .. and prefer the convenience of an platform agnostic environment - as long it's fast and sturdy
20140222 06:55:51 <sgothel> many pros are using it ofc
20140222 06:56:06 <phao> aren't people still talking about "java is too slow"? I still get lots of that...
20140222 06:56:39 <sgothel> I would say 'it won't make your CPUs any faster - dude :)'
20140222 06:56:54 <phao> I don't get it...
20140222 06:57:16 <sgothel> hehe - I mean, it can only be as fast as the underlying CPU .. but not really slower
20140222 06:57:34 <sgothel> performance is defined by the algorithm and data structures
20140222 06:57:49 <sgothel> overhead of function-calls is minimal
20140222 06:57:56 <sgothel> (i.e. JOGL/JNI)
20140222 06:58:02 <phao> sure, but you don't get the "java is too slow" thing?
20140222 06:58:22 <phao> I really thought people were behind that, but I still hear it quite often.
20140222 06:58:30 <sgothel> everybody has their opinion - it's just that, not a fact
20140222 06:58:45 <phao> I see.
20140222 06:59:13 <sgothel> sure .. you may have a hard launch time w/ some AWT stuff and maybe signature OSCP validation in certain environment
20140222 06:59:34 <sgothel> but lets say .. you use some non AWT .. local launch .. it's very fast
20140222 07:00:10 <sgothel> and runtime .. well, the server compiler (C2?) makes your app quite fast ..
20140222 07:00:26 <sgothel> so it's more like: runtime optimization (hotspot) vs compile-time
20140222 07:01:07 <sgothel> lots of things to consider .. security etc .. but raw performance is not that much a question here
20140222 07:02:04 <sgothel> look at GLSL and OpenCL - it is all the same, things gets compiled at runtime and pushed to the dedicated device
20140222 07:02:54 <phao> I see.
20140222 07:02:56 <sgothel> one thing is like runtime optimization can be much better for the actual device .. LLVM stuff can be used .. etc, all agnostic to the actual system (Java, OpenCL, .. whatever)
20140222 07:03:15 <phao> llvm and java? I never seen these two together.
20140222 07:03:49 <sgothel> two of one set of things .. look for llvm [bytecode] VM
20140222 07:04:06 <sgothel> java is just a language and env ..
20140222 07:04:15 <sgothel> but hotspot, llvm .. etc .. are the same kind
20140222 07:04:34 <phao> I've heard of llvm before. WHat I didn't know is that people were compiling java to llvm code.
20140222 07:04:52 <phao> =D
20140222 07:06:01 <sgothel> I didn't say that
20140222 07:06:39 <sgothel> http://vmkit.llvm.org/
20140222 07:07:04 <phao> (I'm with that opened already hehe)
20140222 07:10:23 <phao> sgothel, back when you said "llvm stuff can be used", to what were you refering then?
20140222 07:10:29 <phao> referring*
20140222 07:11:14 <sgothel> using IR-code (similar to bytecode) to be optimized for a specific device, as be done for GLSL, OpenCL, ..
20140222 07:12:40 <phao> I see.
20140222 07:13:03 <sgothel> GCC team is working on a similar runtime library!
20140222 07:13:14 <phao> Are you making some kind of analogy, or LLVM is indeed used in some situations for this sort of thing with GLSL and opencl?
20140222 07:13:24 <phao> and/or*
20140222 07:13:24 <sgothel> both!
20140222 07:13:36 <phao> that's surprising.
20140222 07:13:48 <sgothel> i.e. Mesa uses LLVM for optimizations of software GLSL AFAIK
20140222 07:13:53 <sgothel> same w/ OpenCL
20140222 07:14:01 <sgothel> NV uses llvm for their stuff .. etc etc
20140222 07:14:12 <phao> THat's really surprising =)
20140222 07:14:26 <phao> I didn't have the least of the clues about that =D
20140222 07:14:53 <sgothel> hence the 'runtime compilation thingy' is quite a very common technique used today
20140222 07:15:41 <sgothel> @Xerxes: Bug 927 - hopefully solved, pls re-open if still has issues - tested here w/ your test case and 4 streams
20140222 07:18:40 <phao> Cool stuff =)
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20140223 00:10:55 <sgothel> good morning Xerxes and all here
20140223 00:11:29 <sgothel> btw .. Wade is joining JOCL maintenance .. hurray, no alone anymore
20140223 00:16:10 <sgothel> http://forum.jogamp.org/Maintainer-Info-Update-td4031696.html :)
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20140223 05:05:46 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140223050546.html