JogAmp IRC Chat Logs

#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20140318 05:06:10 (UTC)

20140318 05:06:10 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140317050610.html
20140318 05:06:10 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140318050610.html
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20140318 09:47:50 <zubzub> hmmm is jigong's goal to provide its own jdk implementation?
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20140318 13:23:52 <xranby> zubzub: jigong will provide builds of openjdk directly or indirectly for use on mobile and embedded systems
20140318 13:24:36 <xranby> zubzub: we discussed with the adoptopenjdk project the possibility to connect the jogamp builders to the adoptopenjdk jenkins master
20140318 13:24:50 <xranby> in order to produce openjdk 8 and 9 builds
20140318 13:25:01 <xranby> for all the platforms jogamp support
20140318 13:25:44 <xranby> adoptopenjdk currently run this jenkins master https://adopt-openjdk.ci.cloudbees.com/ where they test openjdk 8 and 9 on x86_64
20140318 13:26:05 <zubzub> ah openjdk doesnt have a decent arm builders?
20140318 13:26:25 <xranby> openjdk do not have a build farm
20140318 13:26:35 <xranby> openjdk only supply sourcecode
20140318 13:26:45 <xranby> there is not even a decent arm port inside openjdk
20140318 13:26:49 <zubzub> idd
20140318 13:26:58 <zubzub> that's why it's so slow on arm I guess :p
20140318 13:27:03 <xranby> icedtea contains a better arm port that you can use in combination with openjdk
20140318 13:27:10 <zubzub> we tried openjdk @work on our arm devices
20140318 13:27:17 <zubzub> but it was too slow to be usuable
20140318 13:27:21 <xranby> ok ask me anything about the arm ports of openjsk
20140318 13:27:30 <xranby> i have worked with them all :)
20140318 13:27:57 <xranby> it is possible to use jamvm + openjdk , cacao + openjdk , avian + openjdk
20140318 13:28:09 <zubzub> is there an openjdk-ish version with a jit/hotspot for arm?
20140318 13:28:11 <xranby> as alternative jvm's for use on arm
20140318 13:28:19 <zubzub> with good performance
20140318 13:28:26 <xranby> icedtea got a arm32 assembler jit
20140318 13:28:53 <xranby> it is a simple jit based on the hotspot implementation
20140318 13:29:13 <zubzub> ok good to know
20140318 13:29:18 <xranby> this port was written by edward nevill a contractor for ARM to speed up OpenJDK on arm
20140318 13:29:37 <zubzub> because it's not 100% that we're going to use oracle jdk (licencing questions)
20140318 13:29:56 <xranby> for aarch64 there is now a superior hotspot c1 and c2 implementation
20140318 13:30:14 <zubzub> we have armv7l or something
20140318 13:30:18 <xranby> written by redhat during the last two years
20140318 13:30:40 <xranby> http://developerblog.redhat.com/2014/03/14/openjdk-on-aarch64-released/
20140318 13:30:48 <zubzub> Processor : ARMv7 Processor rev 10 (v7l)
20140318 13:30:48 <xranby> released last week
20140318 13:30:52 <zubzub> Hardware : Freescale i.MX 6Quad iWave G15 Q7 Board
20140318 13:31:04 <zubzub> but aarch64 that's 64bit arm?
20140318 13:31:07 <xranby> yes
20140318 13:31:16 <xranby> aarch64 is for the new 64bit arm servers
20140318 13:31:25 <xranby> and the latest 64bit mobile phones
20140318 13:31:27 <zubzub> isnt that relatively recent stuff/
20140318 13:31:29 <zubzub> idd
20140318 13:31:56 <xranby> so for your 32bit freescale you can use the port inside icedtea
20140318 13:32:28 <zubzub> how's the javafx status for icedtea?
20140318 13:32:40 <zubzub> last thing I heard there were still some closed source things?
20140318 13:33:08 <xranby> it is possible to build openjfx 8 using only free tools now
20140318 13:33:26 <xranby> thus the only delta is the closed source codecs for some video formats
20140318 13:33:38 <xranby> and some properitary font renderer
20140318 13:33:39 <zubzub> ok we don't need that here so that's ok
20140318 13:33:58 <xranby> but openjfx can use gstreamer and pango + freetype for fonts
20140318 13:34:18 <xranby> so you build it manually
20140318 13:34:44 <xranby> and use it like a runtime extension
20140318 13:34:57 <xranby> just put the openjfx jars inside jre/lib/ext
20140318 13:35:18 <zubzub> yup
20140318 13:35:22 <xranby> no linux distribution currently build openjfx
20140318 13:35:30 <xranby> thus you have to do it yourself
20140318 13:35:48 <xranby> ideally openjfx should be patched to become more modular
20140318 13:35:54 <xranby> so that you can ship it with your application
20140318 13:36:02 <xranby> without having to install it into the jre
20140318 13:36:12 <xranby> but then openjfx has to do more runtime detection
20140318 13:36:48 <xranby> we fixed java3d inside the jogamp project
20140318 13:36:52 <xranby> and made it modular
20140318 13:37:02 <xranby> it simplify installation for the end user
20140318 13:37:20 <zubzub> yeah I'm no fan of javafx monolithic and shielded design
20140318 13:41:20 <xranby> sgothel: the graph UI improvements looks great! i tested it using the applet3 this morning on my ac100
20140318 14:21:12 * phao (~phao@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 14:31:09 <xranby> this is cool: By using a single colour light source + some parallel processing you can photograph objects around corners & behind stuff! https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/7d85673ffb41 http://arxiv.org/pdf/1403.3316v1.pdf
20140318 14:42:20 <xranby> Happy #openjdk 8 release day!
20140318 14:43:00 <bbbruce> \8/
20140318 14:45:48 <zubzub> 8-D
20140318 14:46:57 <xranby> http://instagram.com/p/lr9-wCKOEW/# And so it begins! You can't drink until the release manager's stopped talking :) #java8
20140318 15:31:42 <xranby> Will 'java 8 been published today? https://jdk8.java.net/download.html offers still 8b132, http://java.com still 7u51
20140318 15:32:03 <xranby> maybe they are all drinking
20140318 15:43:19 <zubzub> probably
20140318 15:45:44 <sgothel> 'Good morning' ..
20140318 15:45:59 <xranby> eclipse is gearing up for a java 8 day in San Francisco https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/javaday
20140318 15:46:02 <sgothel> just a thought - can we have a little introduction rule here in our chat ? :)
20140318 15:47:04 <sgothel> So .. hi zzuegg, zuzubb .. phao .. .. and all who we don't know yet .. pls make a little intro .., at least this is what folks would do normally in a real room right? :)
20140318 15:47:18 <zubzub> but this is not a real room
20140318 15:47:21 <zubzub> this is the internetz
20140318 15:47:23 <zubzub> full of dangers
20140318 15:47:31 <zubzub> and strangers :p
20140318 15:47:32 <sgothel> (could be that you did that already .. but I am old :)
20140318 15:47:38 <sgothel> yeah .. not this room :)
20140318 15:47:39 <zubzub> I'm a java programmer
20140318 15:47:42 <zubzub> 28 years old
20140318 15:47:50 <zubzub> I work on embedded osgi devices
20140318 15:47:58 <zubzub> for the public transporation sector
20140318 15:48:06 <zubzub> I'm from Belgium
20140318 15:48:08 <sgothel> ah .. sounds nice
20140318 15:48:25 <sgothel> osgi .. still alive, nice nice
20140318 15:48:32 <sgothel> (outside of eclipse ?)
20140318 15:48:39 <zubzub> I have:
20140318 15:48:40 <zubzub> 1 wife
20140318 15:48:46 <zubzub> 0.99 kid
20140318 15:48:50 <zubzub> 1 house
20140318 15:48:52 <zubzub> 0 pets
20140318 15:48:55 <sgothel> congratulations :)
20140318 15:49:02 <phao> I'm almost finishing my CS undergrad, but I've doing programming/CS studying as a hobby for some 7-8 years now. I don't have a job =D
20140318 15:49:15 <zubzub> yet :p
20140318 15:49:19 <zubzub> sgothel: thx!
20140318 15:49:28 <sgothel> thx for sharing these details .. ofc I didn't ask for the very personal stuff .. especially where I don't have a beer w/ me right now :)
20140318 15:49:31 <zubzub> sgothel: osgi is still very much alive
20140318 15:49:34 <sgothel> but all welcome :)
20140318 15:49:39 <zubzub> sgothel: about every java application server runs on it
20140318 15:49:57 <phao> hehehe, most job offers I hear about seem kind of boring. I have a feeling I'll have a hard time finding a job.
20140318 15:50:06 <phao> Btw, phao is my name "Pedro Henrique Antunes de Oliveira"
20140318 15:50:29 <zubzub> phao: they are, don't be affraid to search for a job even if you think you don't have the right qualifiactions
20140318 15:50:44 <zubzub> phao: chances are they'll hire you anyway
20140318 15:50:45 <sgothel> thank you .. always helping to have a 'picture' when chatting
20140318 15:50:58 <phao> heheheh
20140318 15:51:23 <sgothel> @zuzub: so you like to add osgi deployment for jogamp stuff ?
20140318 15:51:30 <sgothel> or how is it done these days ?
20140318 15:51:30 <zubzub> sure
20140318 15:51:38 <zubzub> it's pretty easy actually
20140318 15:51:47 <sgothel> I did osgi .. err .. around 2002 or so .. last time
20140318 15:51:47 <zubzub> unless you have bad code in there
20140318 15:52:08 <sgothel> you like to maintain it ?
20140318 15:52:25 <sgothel> (like Mark does maintain our maven deployment)
20140318 15:52:29 <zubzub> what osgi support do you have in mind?
20140318 15:52:44 <zubzub> adding osgi support usually consists of having a proper manifest file
20140318 15:52:54 <zubzub> which is done by adding the bnd plugin to maven
20140318 15:52:57 <sgothel> I don't know .. all I remember is .. err .. you need some package .. dependency description and server ?
20140318 15:52:57 <zubzub> and you're done :p
20140318 15:53:13 <sgothel> ah .. so we are good ? great
20140318 15:53:34 <zubzub> yup
20140318 15:53:41 <zubzub> just make sure you don't do any class.forname stuff
20140318 15:53:45 <sgothel> so an osgi user can already use jogamp ?
20140318 15:54:09 <sgothel> (just double checking)
20140318 15:54:11 <zubzub> I guess so :p
20140318 15:54:24 <zubzub> if the jars have a manifest with import&export package entries
20140318 15:54:26 <zubzub> then yes
20140318 15:54:27 <sgothel> if not .. feel welcome .. to add a wiki page etc
20140318 15:54:41 <sgothel> so we need to add something
20140318 15:54:58 <zubzub> the current build system uses maven I guess?
20140318 15:55:10 <sgothel> maybe .. see, that would be the job for the osgi dude
20140318 15:55:13 <sgothel> no
20140318 15:55:21 <sgothel> we use plain ant
20140318 15:55:29 <sgothel> maven is being generate afterwards
20140318 15:55:34 <zubzub> ok
20140318 15:55:44 <zubzub> well I have never worked with ant though :/
20140318 15:55:52 <zubzub> but there is the same bnd plugin for ant
20140318 15:56:20 <sgothel> you mean to produce osgi things ?
20140318 15:56:42 <zubzub> yeah bnd is the name of the plugin that can generate a proper MANIFEST for use with an osgi container
20140318 15:56:45 <sgothel> I assume you do use jogamp stuff for your project already ?
20140318 15:56:50 <zubzub> not really
20140318 15:57:01 <zubzub> I want to write a compositing window manager for X and/or wayland
20140318 15:57:04 <sgothel> oh ..
20140318 15:57:05 <zubzub> in java
20140318 15:57:06 <zubzub> :p
20140318 15:57:22 <sgothel> sounds funny
20140318 15:57:33 <zubzub> and graphui or nifty-gui with jogl can help me with that :p
20140318 15:57:47 <sgothel> .. was just thinking about that
20140318 15:57:53 <sgothel> maybe joining the effort
20140318 15:58:35 <zubzub> I'm currently busy doing a major code cleanup
20140318 15:58:44 <zubzub> I got a bit stuck while using javafx
20140318 15:58:46 <sgothel> so .. if you like to add osgi support, then you would need to add it to gluegen plus all 'sub' projects .. to generate what you need at build time - or - all afterwards (like maven), would be you choice ofc
20140318 15:59:18 <zubzub> I don't know how the bnd plugin does it
20140318 15:59:22 <sgothel> as I wrote .. have to check the AA code, font .. also blending is buggy - then SVG import
20140318 15:59:29 <zubzub> iirc it looks at the import statements of the source code
20140318 15:59:51 <zubzub> sgothel: np I'm not at the point of using it
20140318 15:59:51 <zubzub> yet
20140318 15:59:58 <xranby> do osgi isolate classloaders? one issue i can imagine is if the native symbols resolved by gluegen becomes unavailable to jogl
20140318 16:00:01 <zubzub> first I need to get my code base in order again
20140318 16:00:05 <zubzub> xranby: yes
20140318 16:00:29 <sgothel> needs to be daisy-chained .. like we do in Android
20140318 16:00:37 <sgothel> .. we had this discussion somewhere ..
20140318 16:00:55 <xranby> the ceylon project brought up the issue
20140318 16:01:10 <sgothel> ah .. memories :)
20140318 16:01:27 <zubzub> xranby: you can work around the issue but it's very nasty and hacky
20140318 16:02:26 <zubzub> normally if you want to access a class from another bundle(jar) you'd ask and object of that bundle(jar) to give you the class
20140318 16:02:34 <zubzub> s/and/an
20140318 16:02:39 <xranby> is there a proper way to package it?
20140318 16:03:05 <xranby> so that the dependency is known by osgi
20140318 16:03:17 <zubzub> I'm not sure what the issue is actually
20140318 16:03:52 <zubzub> In osgi you can not ask your own classloader to give you a class from another bundle(=jar)
20140318 16:04:47 <zubzub> It's actually fairly complex matter and I hardly understand half of it myself ;)
20140318 16:05:00 <zubzub> (that's why I have this nice big book on my desk)
20140318 16:05:55 * phao_ (~phao@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 16:05:57 <zubzub> http://moi.vonos.net/java/osgi-classloaders/
20140318 16:07:02 * phao (~phao@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20140318 16:08:08 <zubzub> so as long as you don't want to load a class based on it's name from another jar
20140318 16:08:10 <zubzub> you're safe
20140318 16:09:00 <xranby> the old discussion: http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20131117152553.html#l424 <- rmk0 dmlloyd and alesj spends a day discussing how to workaround the classloader isolation issue for ceylon lang
20140318 16:11:28 <zubzub> ah you have your own native lib loader?
20140318 16:11:34 <xranby> oh this is day 3... to quote rmk0: 'am amused at how this has escalated "i'll try writing a little opengl example..." three days later and a team of specialists...'
20140318 16:12:01 <zubzub> osgi has it's own mechanism of loading native libs
20140318 16:12:33 <zubzub> anyway
20140318 16:13:55 <xranby> so ceylon langs conclusion is : "
20140318 16:13:55 <xranby> 20131119 16:33:55 <alesj> rmk0: dml suggest you guys rather try "normal" Syste::loadLibrary
20140318 16:13:55 <xranby> 20131119 16:33:59 <alesj> then the System::load
20140318 16:13:55 <xranby> 20131119 16:34:12 <alesj> as then we could handle that in Ceylon's CL
20140318 16:13:55 <xranby> 20131119 16:34:21 <rmk0> ok
20140318 16:13:56 <xranby> 20131119 16:34:29 <alesj> otherwise it by-passes CL::findLibrary mechanism
20140318 16:13:56 <xranby> "
20140318 16:14:47 <sgothel> it .. should work w/ that system loader .. would be nice to learn the outcome of all this. didn't they solve it these days ?
20140318 16:14:56 <rmk0> lo
20140318 16:15:06 <rmk0> i'm waiting for them to release ceylon 1.1 to try again
20140318 16:15:24 <rmk0> suspect the answer is going to be to pack the jogl and gluegen jars into one jar
20140318 16:15:32 <sgothel> whatever the outcome is - would be nice if somebody who is interested maintains general OSGI [support/issues] .. hmm
20140318 16:16:12 <zubzub> the first step is to add the bnd ant plugin to the build system
20140318 16:16:14 <sgothel> big-fat should not be required as I remember my OSGI stuff .. back in the days
20140318 16:16:20 <zubzub> http://www.aqute.biz/Bnd/Ant
20140318 16:16:38 <sgothel> all great .. but 1st .. 'WHO' will do it .. ?
20140318 16:16:49 <zubzub> <
20140318 16:16:51 <zubzub> I guess :)
20140318 16:16:55 <sgothel> great !
20140318 16:16:58 * zzuegg (~zzuegg@anon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20140318 16:17:21 <sgothel> pls send me an email .. I will add you a wiki account and later one on jogamp
20140318 16:17:24 * zzuegg (~zzuegg@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 16:17:52 <zubzub> sure
20140318 16:17:55 <zubzub> give me your email
20140318 16:17:56 <zubzub> in pm
20140318 16:18:02 <zubzub> or I can give you mine
20140318 16:19:55 <sgothel> So your real world name is ?
20140318 16:20:08 <sgothel> Since that must be used in the git commits messages ..
20140318 16:20:13 <sgothel> and wiki ..
20140318 16:20:25 <sgothel> (whatever you like your real world name to be)
20140318 16:20:34 <zubzub> Erik De Rijcke
20140318 16:20:46 <sgothel> (not lawyers here .. but trackable commits)
20140318 16:21:02 <zubzub> (no it's not scandinavian)
20140318 16:21:06 <sgothel> Welcome Erik ! Taking all the load of OSGi ..
20140318 16:21:19 <zubzub> I don't expect it to be much
20140318 16:21:26 <zubzub> the challange for me will be to understand the build system
20140318 16:21:28 <zubzub> and tweak it
20140318 16:21:29 <sgothel> I am Sven .. and neither from there .. but those names were fashion :)
20140318 16:21:34 <sgothel> you will .. you will .. :)
20140318 16:21:51 <rmk0> i do the maven packages and i still don't understand it \o/
20140318 16:22:17 <sgothel> Sweet!
20140318 16:22:54 <sgothel> It always takes a person to do the job - now we have one for another deployment model.
20140318 16:23:45 <zubzub> you know what's a really cool build tool?
20140318 16:23:46 <zubzub> gradle
20140318 16:23:46 <zubzub> :p
20140318 16:24:05 <sgothel> we had discussions ..
20140318 16:24:35 <sgothel> tbh .. current system (ant, jenkins, ..) does not scale that well
20140318 16:24:49 <sgothel> always need to look at the whole picture w/ jenkins jobs
20140318 16:25:14 <sgothel> i.e. how much pain is it to have a new package/project w/ jenkins job ?
20140318 16:25:22 <sgothel> right now - it's scary
20140318 16:26:15 <sgothel> if we all find a better way - it will be painful .. but maybe doable
20140318 16:26:29 <rmk0> it's harder when there's native code involved
20140318 16:26:51 <sgothel> with Mark we discussed maven .. i.e. how to use a local 'cache' .. etc .. and so on .. and so forth
20140318 16:26:53 <zubzub> gradle can also compile native code
20140318 16:27:04 <zubzub> and generate maven artifacts
20140318 16:27:07 <sgothel> but for sure: the new system must allow all freedoms we have right now w/ ant
20140318 16:28:01 <zubzub> all I can say is to have a quick look at gradle and you'll understand how powerful it is
20140318 16:28:11 <zubzub> hower that also makes it a bit of a challange to learn
20140318 16:28:13 <sgothel> what we/one could do .. a proof of concept for gluegen+joal to discuss ..
20140318 16:28:19 <sgothel> ah
20140318 16:28:25 <sgothel> learning is not a problem .. IMHO
20140318 16:28:28 <zubzub> not that it is hard to use
20140318 16:28:37 <zubzub> but a lot happens behind the scenes
20140318 16:28:40 <sgothel> i.e. laziness should not be an obstacle :)
20140318 16:28:47 <zubzub> but time is ;)
20140318 16:28:49 <sgothel> but it must be understood 100%
20140318 16:28:52 <sgothel> yes, time !
20140318 16:28:56 * phao (~phao@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 16:29:27 <zubzub> for starters gradle doesnt use any xml
20140318 16:29:33 <zubzub> it's all in groovy
20140318 16:29:39 <sgothel> right now, we have Wade, Harvey, Mark, Xerxes and me understanding our build system .. more or less
20140318 16:29:50 <sgothel> so all discussions must involve all of us ofc
20140318 16:29:55 <zubzub> sure
20140318 16:30:05 <zubzub> I don't plan on pushing gradle :)
20140318 16:30:21 <zubzub> just a future recommendation ;)
20140318 16:30:29 * phao_ (~phao@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20140318 16:30:36 <zubzub> I'll have to earn some credit first anyway ;)
20140318 16:30:38 <sgothel> to be efficient .. we may need to make a chat appointment ..for build systems .. ofc it's an open discussion w/o having a specific target system
20140318 16:31:37 <sgothel> maybe we can start an email thread w/ all parties involved - if not even in the forum (even though that might bring some noise)
20140318 16:32:43 <sgothel> @Xerxes, all: It should be possible now to add custom UI widget to the 'demo' in a proper OO manner
20140318 16:33:24 <sgothel> have to sneak in color + textures to the OutlineShape first I guess
20140318 16:33:29 <xranby> sgothel: wonderful!
20140318 16:33:51 <sgothel> so next demo .. the movie collection thingy :)
20140318 16:34:27 <sgothel> right now color is a Region property for performance (global)
20140318 16:35:17 <xranby> speaking of that movie collection thingy.. how do we want to spatial possition the movies audio? would be great to have for the demo
20140318 16:35:19 <sgothel> so adding more shader options also means adding better shader management, on-the-fly creation etc
20140318 16:35:34 <sgothel> right .. possible now
20140318 16:36:07 <xranby> openal support it yet we need a way for the glmediaplayer to express its 3d location
20140318 16:36:10 <sgothel> i.e. if you read the code in UIShape - we deliver the event w/ local relative-normal translation and bbox
20140318 16:36:26 <sgothel> but they (shapes) know about their location ofc
20140318 16:36:49 <sgothel> so we can (shall) add that to the GLMediaPlayer/AudioSink ..
20140318 16:37:23 <sgothel> i.e. the transform matrix -> ALAudioSink
20140318 16:37:38 <xranby> awesome
20140318 16:37:52 <sgothel> @Mark: the transform issue .. another laughable thingy was: all objects were too close to near-plane :)
20140318 16:38:00 <rmk0> hehe, right
20140318 16:38:27 <sgothel> it's funny when you do backend for years .. and then stumble about these simple things :)
20140318 16:39:00 <sgothel> so the shape's have their rotation-center now
20140318 16:40:11 <sgothel> probably also need some sorting for picking
20140318 16:40:36 <sgothel> but for UI alone, I guess we don't need excessive optimization, since object count is small
20140318 16:40:59 <sgothel> and all of this is to be integrated in some user's system
20140318 16:45:49 <sgothel> @zubzub: When you feel fit, add yourself here: https://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/Maintainer_and_Contacts
20140318 16:46:38 <sgothel> btw .. we now HIDE all under our FAQ :)
20140318 16:46:45 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/Jogl_Tutorial
20140318 16:47:19 <sgothel> JogAmp's Wiki <- maybe that section .. at least some parts like DEPLOYMENT shall go to the top of our Wiki in it's own section ?
20140318 16:48:13 <sgothel> Or making a 'Deployment' page and link that to 'Getting Started' on front and in that FAQ/Tutorial page
20140318 16:48:15 <xranby> agree deployment should be the first thing to read
20140318 16:48:51 <sgothel> further more .. Qun tried to compile jogamp a few weeks ago and failed miserably on a Debian Wheezy machine :)
20140318 16:49:04 <sgothel> (Qun .. my boss and wife)
20140318 16:49:27 <sgothel> maybe we also should be able to build w/ vanilla ant/junit/.. hmm
20140318 16:51:54 <sgothel> @Xerxes: Which decoder has 'TheLittleP' included ?
20140318 16:53:09 <sgothel> it's always nice to have the demultiplexer do some pts sorting - libav does this as well ofc
20140318 16:53:27 <sgothel> otherwise we would have no change in heavens to be on sync :)
20140318 16:53:32 <sgothel> *chance*
20140318 16:53:55 <xranby> i looked at it quickly and saw some huffman decoding, mulaw audio decoding , his code play his mjpeg + wav stream
20140318 16:54:13 <xranby> avi file
20140318 16:54:22 <sgothel> oh .. and I was silently hoping for this vp* successor :)
20140318 16:54:50 <sgothel> btw I tried to look how to compile libav .. w/ just VP* .. but I failed :(
20140318 16:55:11 <sgothel> i.e. if we could produce just a libav w/ that google codec .. well
20140318 16:55:40 <sgothel> but .. not a huge prio here on my side
20140318 16:58:07 <xranby> i can check what eclesia have
20140318 16:58:40 <sgothel> Q: So is it possible to use our jogamp jar files from jogamp .. to be used w/ a custom demo code ? I am too scared to play this game :)
20140318 16:58:40 <xranby> if i recall correctly he also have some video decoders in the public domain un framework
20140318 16:58:53 <xranby> A: red the license
20140318 16:58:55 <xranby> read
20140318 16:59:01 <xranby> A2: ask your lawyer
20140318 16:59:16 <xranby> a rule of thumb, never give legal advice
20140318 16:59:42 <sgothel> yes .. he has .. however, I kindly doubt that one dude can do all that what like a huge team does for years .. ahem, no discredit here to eclesia (KUDOS to him) .. but it sounds a bit odd to me.
20140318 17:00:04 <sgothel> well .. he says he has a demultiplexer AFAIK
20140318 17:00:24 <sgothel> on the other hand .. we do the same (redo tons of things) :)
20140318 17:01:06 <sgothel> so - good call Xerxes, looking in his repo! smacking me for being so sticky :)
20140318 17:01:47 <sgothel> and a demo w/ Marks octree impl. might be cool as well, w/ tons of shapes
20140318 17:02:25 <xranby> http://unlicense.developpez.com/ https://bitbucket.org/Eclesia/unlicense/
20140318 17:02:36 <sgothel> ofc ..
20140318 17:03:16 <sgothel> and he is welcome to pick our Quaternion/AABBox rotation and picking
20140318 17:05:25 <xranby> (17:54:55) sgothel: btw I tried to look how to compile libav .. w/ just VP* .. but I failed :( <- i can take a look as well
20140318 17:05:52 <sgothel> humbly bowing .. THX!
20140318 17:06:13 <sgothel> (would enable windows and osx .. )
20140318 17:06:36 <sgothel> btw .. you once reported some libav of some ubuntu (which I don't test manually here anymore) doesn't work anymore ?
20140318 17:07:07 <xranby> there was a report of some fedora user
20140318 17:07:22 <xranby> not my system
20140318 17:07:43 <xranby> http://forum.jogamp.org/How-to-use-GLMediaPlayer-FFMPEG-td4026567.html#a4026585
20140318 17:08:11 <xranby> i newer got a reply
20140318 17:08:19 <sgothel> ah
20140318 17:08:57 <sgothel> I told you I do very much honor you superb communication skill - also memorizing all the locations and everything - priceless !
20140318 17:09:31 <xranby> kudos
20140318 17:09:36 <sgothel> good that you do no work for a secret service agency, I hope! :)
20140318 17:09:58 <xranby> well i am aftraid i cant answer that one
20140318 17:10:03 <sgothel> hehe
20140318 17:10:50 <xranby> oh the presentation thingy...
20140318 17:11:16 <xranby> I am the IT-Exorcist at Zafena AB in sweding bulding blood analyzers
20140318 17:11:22 <xranby> sweden
20140318 17:11:26 <sgothel> (the vampire)
20140318 17:11:41 <sgothel> vampire's toolkit
20140318 17:11:56 <xranby> sure.. it measure if the blood is "thin" or not
20140318 17:12:43 <sgothel> you tested graphui on ac100 .. what was the max fps ?
20140318 17:12:54 <sgothel> (I didn't dare .. :)
20140318 17:13:25 <xranby> hmm.. maybe it was a bug.. i only saw the fons displayed on the buttons
20140318 17:13:34 <xranby> thus i did not see the fps
20140318 17:13:38 <xranby> fonts
20140318 17:13:47 <sgothel> on the very bottom .. the status line
20140318 17:14:13 <sgothel> if the xrandr is not working properly .. the fonts (big text .. etc) will display odd
20140318 17:14:30 <xranby> i was able to move the buttons fast enough.. felt the touchpad mouse movements was the limiting factor
20140318 17:14:40 <sgothel> i.e. we display the text labels in 1:1 like 10pt font regarding DPI
20140318 17:15:24 <sgothel> tested on one machine w/ wrong dpi setting (X11) .. and all labels were super tiny
20140318 17:15:50 <sgothel> buttons are different
20140318 17:16:01 <sgothel> i.e. rendering text regarding their 'spacing'
20140318 17:24:49 <xranby> maybe add a fallback if the dpi is obviously broken
20140318 17:26:03 <xranby> most old os assume 72 dpi if it is unknown
20140318 17:26:29 <xranby> all new os manage to autodetect it... hmm
20140318 17:26:50 <sgothel> oh intro: sorry, yes - me Sven Gothel, spoiled to be allowed to work on jogamp thx to paying (morally correct) clients for this little piece of free software. Doing embedded and graphics programming for years, while having touched server side stuff as well .. etc. 46 yo, wife, 1kid, .. Bremerhaven, Germany. Currently pretty ashamed of German + EU + western governments of their hypocrisy dealing w/ their imperialism etc ..
20140318 17:27:45 <sgothel> xdpyinfo .. should tell
20140318 17:27:48 <xranby> maybe myth: http://www.photoshopessentials.com/essentials/the-72-ppi-web-resolution-myth/
20140318 17:27:52 <sgothel> yes .. need fallback
20140318 17:28:51 <sgothel> did that fallback for android touch events / our NEWT GestureHandler ..
20140318 17:28:52 <hija> 46? I thought you were like 37
20140318 17:29:01 <sgothel> hoho
20140318 17:29:13 <xranby> he is a basket pro as well :)
20140318 17:29:25 <sgothel> once I was .. so many lives :)
20140318 17:29:26 <hija> he did seem really tall in the videos...
20140318 17:29:39 <xranby> he is!
20140318 17:29:49 <sgothel> and against Xerxes .. also became so fat :)
20140318 17:30:09 <sgothel> Xerxes needs to eat more :)
20140318 17:30:28 <sgothel> so next conference I look less .. :)
20140318 17:30:47 <xranby> haha.. well i am on vegetable diet for now
20140318 17:31:25 <sgothel> well, the cattle I eat .. are not that slim :)
20140318 17:31:42 <hija> haha
20140318 17:32:21 <hija> would it matter?
20140318 17:32:41 <hija> you just need to eat more :P
20140318 17:32:59 <hija> sorry for bombing your conversation, you may continue :D
20140318 17:33:08 <sgothel> just making a proof that a born German national can be funny :)
20140318 17:33:39 <sgothel> despite 'our' gov. ugly face as it shows now over and over again ..
20140318 17:34:27 <sgothel> so when I need to get things done, I better don't read "news" :)
20140318 17:34:44 <xranby> hija: i belive the proteins found in beans and nuts require quite a lot of energy for metabolism
20140318 17:34:52 <xranby> thus.. if you eat more you actually become thinner
20140318 17:35:00 <sgothel> haha
20140318 17:35:07 <sgothel> .. and DIE
20140318 17:35:15 <xranby> sure that will happen
20140318 17:35:35 <xranby> speaking of bombing onversations
20140318 17:35:48 <xranby> the best news came out yesterday
20140318 17:36:13 <sgothel> lol .. yeah, now since we don't bomb for real, our gov. is just shooting ourselves in the foot :)
20140318 17:36:21 <xranby> https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140317-possible-echo-of-big-bang-detected/
20140318 17:36:33 <sgothel> ah that one ..
20140318 17:36:45 <sgothel> and I thought .. KUDOS to Crimea :)
20140318 17:36:49 <xranby> not every day you learn what happened a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second after big bang. #BICEP2
20140318 17:37:35 <sgothel> yeah .. hand on the desk .. feeling the vibrations of trillions of years :)
20140318 17:38:39 <sgothel> all star born childs we are .. and still, some are more star born than others 'Orwell, Animal Farm' :)
20140318 17:39:16 <hija> hmmm i didn't know Ukraine was larger than Germany...
20140318 17:39:29 <sgothel> it's like the whole EU :)
20140318 17:39:30 <xranby> i like to imagine the inflation faster than speed of light of the universe caused by the new field of particles: inflatons.
20140318 17:40:13 <sgothel> sadly folks didn't read the news about Greece, Cypress etc .. welcome to the EU (autch) :)
20140318 17:40:23 <xranby> kind of funky thinking about them.. the universe back then was lasting an eternity from a inflation particles point of view
20140318 17:40:26 <hija> :p
20140318 17:40:41 <hija> Also as far as I can see Crimea is larger than Cyprus...
20140318 17:40:51 <sgothel> but hey .. just the payed protesters from west did that little campaign anyways
20140318 17:41:06 <xranby> then the inflation particle died.. halflife.. and when the universe cooled off it enabled new kinds of particles
20140318 17:41:37 <xranby> thus the universe we live in now do not contain that many inflation particles...
20140318 17:41:38 <sgothel> yup .. Xerxes .. all nice and magic, I too love to romanticize our origins
20140318 17:41:52 <xranby> so.. if the universe we live in now.. happen to die..
20140318 17:41:57 <xranby> and cool off
20140318 17:42:07 <sgothel> we do not now .. anything tbh
20140318 17:42:08 <xranby> may enable even more fancier particles
20140318 17:42:22 <xranby> thus the universe repeat itself in higher and higher orders
20140318 17:42:42 <xranby> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi8M3-4CYAAWIBZ.jpg:large
20140318 17:42:43 <sgothel> maybe .. we still don't know, and IMHO can never know .. whats outside that bottle
20140318 17:43:01 <sgothel> the bottle we live in .. ship in that bottle that is :)
20140318 17:44:24 <sgothel> little shrimps we all are :)
20140318 17:44:35 <xranby> cool to be a shrimp
20140318 17:44:43 <xranby> they have many eyes
20140318 17:44:47 <xranby> and many limbs
20140318 17:44:53 <sgothel> delicious
20140318 17:45:03 <xranby> and many friends who love them
20140318 17:45:11 <sgothel> Qun loves you :)
20140318 17:45:25 <sgothel> especially w/o antibiotics
20140318 17:45:55 <xranby> i better not eat too much then.. or else i may get eaten
20140318 17:46:49 <xranby> its the big shrimp that gets caught in the net
20140318 17:46:51 <sgothel> our dear beloved rules in this little universe, so after all - politics might not be off nature afterall (cynicism mode) :)
20140318 17:47:06 <sgothel> hehe
20140318 17:50:58 <xranby> nature still rule
20140318 17:51:49 <sgothel> alway love Star Trek TNG 'What do you do?', Picard: 'Learning to be a better man'
20140318 17:52:19 <sgothel> right .. those things are no more PC, I am afraid .. lol
20140318 17:57:55 * monsieur_max1 (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20140318 18:26:49 <hija> is there an annotation in java to declare a cheat in the code?
20140318 18:27:28 <zubzub> a cheat?
20140318 18:27:57 <hija> yeah when you feel that this is not the proper way to do what you did
20140318 18:28:10 <hija> but for some reason you did
20140318 18:28:11 <hija> :P
20140318 18:28:20 <hija> a workaround? :P
20140318 18:28:29 <sgothel> I declare methods .. deprecated to mark them 'dirty'
20140318 18:30:23 <hija> I am reading excel files and apparently excel marks its cells with the type (a very good thing - but good luck having users following it to heart)
20140318 18:30:40 <hija> If I just try to read the cell as a string
20140318 18:30:44 <hija> i get an exception
20140318 18:30:53 <hija> (this is Apache POI library btw)
20140318 18:31:11 <hija> but if I set the Cell to a string first and then read it
20140318 18:31:13 <hija> its fine...
20140318 18:31:38 <hija> but it feels like a cheat :p
20140318 18:32:04 <hija> this is not for jogl obviously :p
20140318 18:33:00 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 19:03:46 * hija (~hija@anon) Quit (Quit: hija)
20140318 19:50:48 * xranby_ac100 (~xranby@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 19:52:52 <xranby_ac100> http://mreinhold.org/blog/jdk8-ga - JDK 8: General Availability
20140318 19:53:09 <xranby_ac100> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/index.html
20140318 20:00:14 <zubzub> how about a FIXME comment?
20140318 20:00:28 <zubzub> (@cheat discussion)
20140318 20:17:48 <zubzub> k brb
20140318 20:17:55 <zubzub> converting my projects to java8 :p
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20140318 20:20:12 * hija (~hija@anon) Quit (Client Quit)
20140318 20:26:06 <xranby_ac100> sgothel: have you tested the movie cube demos recently on android?
20140318 20:27:07 * phao (~phao@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
20140318 20:27:45 <xranby_ac100> sgothel: my wife picked up an samsung galaxy note 3 earlier today with the adreno 330 chipset opengl es 3.0 and so on
20140318 20:29:37 <xranby_ac100> the framerate for the glmediplayer demos sits around 3fps.. not sure why
20140318 20:29:53 <xranby_ac100> the framerate is decent for the gears demo etc
20140318 20:30:36 <xranby_ac100> so.. i need to investigate why the glmediaplayer stutter
20140318 20:31:46 <xranby_ac100> i will try a reboot and recheck
20140318 20:33:00 <xranby_ac100> using 2.1.5
20140318 20:38:07 * hija (~hija@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 20:39:21 * void256 (~void@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140318 20:41:17 <xranby_ac100> void256: hi Jens!
20140318 20:49:31 <void256> xranby_ac100: hi there! what's up? :)
20140318 20:51:59 <xranby_ac100> well the usual... java 8 is out... scientist on the south pool measured the instant inflation particle traces that caused the expanse of the universe... and hacking on jogamp 2.2.x now after the 2.1.5 release is done :)
20140318 20:52:21 <void256> sounds like a lot of fun then ;)
20140318 20:52:44 <xranby_ac100> we have been running an introduction party here due to soo many new names
20140318 20:53:42 <xranby_ac100> sgothel has improved the gpu rendered graph ui toolkit
20140318 20:54:08 <xranby_ac100> if i recall there was something he wanted to discuss wiht you
20140318 20:54:32 <void256> I want all of that for Nifty 2.0 ^^
20140318 20:54:50 <void256> but I wanted independenly from jogamp :>
20140318 20:54:55 <void256> *I want it
20140318 20:56:03 <xranby_ac100> java 8 can pass methods... neat
20140318 21:19:54 <zubzub> it's actually a method wrapped in a single method interface written as a special lambda compiled to invoke dynamic bytecode
20140318 21:19:57 <zubzub> but yeah :p
20140318 21:57:16 * void256 (~void@anon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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20140318 22:03:03 <sgothel> back ..
20140318 22:03:20 <sgothel> @Xerxes: yes .. slow w/ 2.1.5 Android :)
20140318 22:03:37 <sgothel> should be better w/ this RC .. (text rendering) .. have to test myself
20140318 22:04:32 <sgothel> @Jens .. I will 'snoop' through your stuff .. and again, we may think about something together
20140318 22:04:44 <sgothel> I know - you like that independent thing - that is fine
20140318 22:05:17 <sgothel> so we can do things in parallel .. helping each other out and sharing
20140318 22:06:03 <sgothel> when I code this, I will ofc not do an intermediate abstraction layer .. but the jogl dependency is actually pretty damn small
20140318 22:06:18 <sgothel> also .. thinking about pulling out things of jogl .. not yet though
20140318 22:07:05 <sgothel> @Xerxes: java1 can pass methods :) via an interface .. for ages
20140318 22:11:43 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has left #jogamp
20140318 22:16:38 <zzuegg> is there any gl object in jogl that holds only the gl 4 features, but not the 4.1+ ?
20140318 22:16:47 <sgothel> no
20140318 22:17:06 <zzuegg> allright, so thats the reason i did not found it :)
20140318 22:17:10 <sgothel> btw .. all these are merely interfaces, the impl. object is all-of-it together
20140318 22:17:30 <sgothel> the UML diagram shows you ..
20140318 22:17:49 <sgothel> 3 impl. classes es1, es3 and gl4bc
20140318 22:18:28 <sgothel> (reduces the footprint .. while still giving some notion of profile separation
20140318 22:18:50 <zzuegg> yeah thats true..
20140318 22:19:28 <zzuegg> ah, found the uml
20140318 22:32:01 <zzuegg> is there any way to get the supported monitor modes before i start the newt window? sorry for the dump questions
20140318 22:32:15 <sgothel> not dump at all ..
20140318 22:32:29 <sgothel> you would need to at least create a Display and Screen 1st
20140318 22:32:46 <sgothel> the MonitorMode demos .. (at least one of them AFAIK) shows this
20140318 22:33:20 <sgothel> i.e. addReference() .. on a Screen .. query .. Newt window .. screen.removeRef()
20140318 22:34:10 <sgothel> you can also do a createNative() on Screen AFAIK, which shall not incr. the ref-counter
20140318 22:34:23 <sgothel> and you can reuse the screen instance for your window for efficiency
20140318 22:40:42 <zzuegg> where are those MonitorMode demos located?
20140318 22:40:55 <sgothel> jogl test
20140318 22:41:18 <sgothel> jogl/src/test/*
20140318 22:41:46 <zzuegg> ah. good. thanks
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20140318 22:53:00 <sgothel> @Xerxes: firefox-28.0.source/mozilla-release/media/libvpx/PATENTS <- A Google Patent Grant ? :)
20140319 03:02:53 * [Mike] (~Mike]@anon) Quit ()
20140319 03:56:17 * [Mike] (~Mike]@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140319 05:06:10 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140319050610.html