#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20140527 05:05:16 (UTC)

20140527 05:05:16 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140526050516.html
20140527 05:05:16 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140527050516.html
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20140527 11:36:54 <zubzub> does jogamp/jogl provide any tools to work with regions?
20140527 11:37:02 <zubzub> (2d regions)
20140527 11:37:15 <zubzub> where I can add & subtract rectangles
20140527 11:39:39 <zubzub> (basically libpixman functionality)
20140527 11:41:00 <xranby> zubzub: the closest you get in jogl is the graph api
20140527 11:43:42 <rmk0> we seem to be causing problems for apitrace: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/apitrace/2014-May/000948.html
20140527 11:43:52 <zubzub> xranby: but I guess it's not in the current jogl release?
20140527 11:44:06 <rmk0> apparently the way profile probing is done isn't quite "compliant"... i obviously don't know enough to comment
20140527 11:48:04 <xranby> zubzub: graph is part of the current jogl release 2.1.* you can try the graph demo applets
20140527 11:49:37 <rmk0> .. cancel what i just said: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/apitrace/2014-May/000952.html
20140527 11:50:46 <zubzub> xranby: under what package does it live (where can I find the javadoc?)
20140527 11:50:47 <xranby> graph have been part of jogl since april 2011 http://ramisantina.com/blog/2011/04/gpu-based-resolution-independent-font-curve-rendering-initial-release/
20140527 11:51:43 <zubzub> I cant find it unde rthe javadoc that google gives me
20140527 11:52:10 <xranby> zubzub: it is found under com.jogamp.graph
20140527 11:53:54 <zubzub> so it's not under jogl's javadoc
20140527 11:54:01 <zubzub> is there any public available javadoc?
20140527 11:56:37 <zubzub> if it should be then I can say it's currently not ;)
20140527 11:57:32 <xranby> zubzub: ask sgothel when he is back
20140527 11:57:32 <xranby> i belive the comments in the code is the best documentation right now
20140527 11:57:33 <xranby> there is junit tests as well with demonstration examples
20140527 11:57:33 <xranby> i cant really explain why the graph classes is ommited from the javadoc
20140527 11:58:14 <zubzub> k
20140527 11:58:22 <zubzub> I'll have a look at the source then :)
20140527 12:21:43 <xranby> zubzub: ramis paper is a must read http://gc2011.graphicon.ru/files/gc2011/proceedings/conference/gc2011Santina.pdf
20140527 12:22:09 <xranby> its the idea behind graph
20140527 12:46:53 <zubzub> currently the only thing in graph that can help me is the Outline class
20140527 12:47:07 <zubzub> I think I might be able to wrap it in a libpixman region like behavior
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20140527 13:26:35 * ChanServ sets mode +v sgothel
20140527 13:29:53 <sgothel> zuzub: if you talk about rectangle math .. well, we have a Rectangle class (you can add thos functions there .. if n/a) - or _rendering_ a rectangle/curves, then Xerxes is right - use graph
20140527 13:30:16 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/deployment/archive/master/gluegen_789-joal_534-jogl_1253-jocl_961-signed/ <- w/ HiDPI
20140527 13:34:54 <zubzub> sgothel: yes I was planning on use that but it turns out I'm adding/subtracting rectangles
20140527 13:35:01 <zubzub> sgothel: but the result is a shape
20140527 13:35:04 <zubzub> not a rectangle
20140527 13:35:38 <zubzub> so the input will always be a rectangle, but the output will be an arbitrary shape (=list of rectangles)
20140527 13:36:01 <zubzub> and so far I haven't found any simple and small java library that does that
20140527 13:39:02 <zubzub> but I will investigate my use case further
20140527 13:39:13 <sgothel> again: rendering ?
20140527 13:39:24 <sgothel> then OurlineShape should be fine ..
20140527 13:39:54 <sgothel> it can hold multiple closed shapes
20140527 13:40:37 <zubzub> http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/X11libs/X11libs-60/pixman/pixman-0.20.2/pixman/pixman-region.c
20140527 13:40:40 <zubzub> yes eventually
20140527 13:40:58 <sgothel> our GraphUI Buttons for example .. holding text (curves) and the outline rectangle
20140527 13:41:20 <zubzub> I'm actually trying to implement a wayland server side region :)
20140527 13:41:50 <sgothel> we do have intersect test .. etc
20140527 13:41:52 <sgothel> ah ..
20140527 13:42:03 <zubzub> so it defines a region on the screen
20140527 13:42:10 <zubzub> but is not perse for rendering
20140527 13:42:41 <zubzub> and a region can change by adding/subtracting rectangles
20140527 13:42:55 <sgothel> hmm .. right .. in theory ..
20140527 13:43:32 <sgothel> I guess it would help if you/we can adjust those classes .. adding more domain functions .. (intersect, add, remove, ..) .. interesting
20140527 13:44:36 <zubzub> indeed
20140527 13:44:57 <sgothel> like cutting a shape etc etc
20140527 13:45:00 <zubzub> but for now I will see what my exact requirements are for my use case
20140527 13:45:14 <zubzub> as I plan to use jogl+nifty-gui to do my compositor rendering
20140527 13:45:39 <zubzub> but I'm still busy writing the boilerplate code
20140527 13:46:08 <sgothel> GraphUI allows a bit of such features (compositing layers) .. but WIP
20140527 13:47:07 <sgothel> it will have 'graph windows', import SVG .. etc for our siggraph BOF
20140527 13:47:33 <sgothel> now you can have an GLEventListener Button .. for starters .. etc
20140527 13:55:10 <zubzub> yeah it looks that I mostly need regions, either to define input regions on the screen or as a hint as to update what parts of the screen
20140527 13:55:39 <zubzub> (ie damaged regions)
20140527 13:58:02 <zubzub> or as a hint to define which parts of a buffer are opaque
20140527 14:11:29 <sgothel> our Region already holds graph related processed data, where OutlineShape is more close to the original.
20140527 14:11:57 <sgothel> OutlineShape will be triangulated etc .. and injected into our [GL]Region .. then rendered
20140527 14:12:41 <sgothel> triangulation: don't worry, curves stay curves, but they need to be fixed a bit .. (start/end, overlapping, ..)
20140527 14:12:54 <sgothel> plus some coefficients are calculated
20140527 14:13:03 <sgothel> for the graph algo
20140527 14:14:28 <sgothel> @ALL: I will be offline from 2014-05-28 - 2014-06-04 ..
20140527 14:29:54 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20140527 14:41:25 <hharrison> sgothel: off for a vacation?
20140527 14:42:39 <sgothel> 50/50 .. helping a friend move to Bergen, Norway .. camping out on the way back
20140527 14:43:08 <hharrison> Nice plan
20140527 14:43:19 <sgothel> the 'helping hand' gave us a good conscience to have such a thing :)
20140527 14:44:01 <sgothel> when I return .. the 2nd round of HiDPI fixing will happen ofc
20140527 14:47:42 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=741#c17
20140527 14:48:23 <hharrison> Hopefully we will have some good initial results/fixes after banging on the build you did last night
20140527 14:48:58 <hharrison> Unfortunately I'm madly context-switching these days, can't seem to find an hour striaght to even play with it
20140527 14:49:06 <hharrison> Oh well....Matt's problem :-D
20140527 14:49:08 <sgothel> I already see bugs in conjunction w/ our NApplet demos .. oh well
20140527 14:49:57 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/chuck/view/fwd/job/jogl/1253/label=linux-x86_64-nvidia/consoleText <- jump to 'TestVersionSemanticsNOUI'
20140527 14:50:06 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/Jogamp_Versioning_and_Releases#Semantic_Version_Numbers <- result of impl. this
20140527 14:52:01 <hharrison> That's erm...verbose
20140527 14:52:24 <sgothel> it's a start :)
20140527 14:52:31 <hharrison> indeed
20140527 14:52:50 <sgothel> (I did the verbose stuff .. they merged it - semver team, good)
20140527 14:52:54 <hharrison> I did get bored about two weekends back and had a bit of a play with gluegen's build script
20140527 14:52:59 <sgothel> we may can fine tune it ..
20140527 14:53:13 <hharrison> separated the antlr grammars into their own area
20140527 14:53:49 <hharrison> Mostly I was just tyring to follwo the various stages of the build
20140527 14:53:49 <sgothel> nice
20140527 14:53:58 <hharrison> src/main/antlr/...
20140527 14:54:21 <hharrison> I should push that out as an RFC and see if you like it or not
20140527 14:54:35 <sgothel> sure I like modularization
20140527 14:54:59 <hharrison> Alright, post-it note written, will leave you a present for when you get back
20140527 14:55:02 <sgothel> enables us to estimate work for maybe upgrading antlr .. if needed one day
20140527 14:55:09 <sgothel> thx :)
20140527 14:55:20 <hharrison> it actually turned out pretty well (IMHO)
20140527 14:55:32 <sgothel> cool
20140527 14:55:35 <hharrison> ended up with java.src, antlr.src etc.
20140527 14:55:44 <hharrison> as the working ant variables
20140527 14:56:00 <hharrison> OK, off to $DAYJOB
20140527 14:56:18 <sgothel> ay ay .. laters and have fun
20140527 14:56:24 <zubzub> is jogl/jogamp actually commercially backed/developed?
20140527 14:56:40 <sgothel> developers .. yes
20140527 14:56:58 <zubzub> oh that explains why it works so well
20140527 14:56:59 <sgothel> i.e. companies use it for commercial products
20140527 14:57:17 <zubzub> and you sgothel?
20140527 14:57:19 <sgothel> either their dudes help out - or pay for support .. etc
20140527 14:57:38 <sgothel> My wife runs a Software company which can be hired
20140527 14:58:01 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/wiki/index.php/Maintainer_and_Contacts#Sven_Gothel
20140527 14:58:33 <zubzub> that explains why you're so active :)
20140527 14:58:59 <sgothel> well .. it's not the money, but the latter allows us to do what we like
20140527 14:59:30 <sgothel> 'fun' is the motivation, getting compensation here and there allows us to do that
20140527 15:00:04 * guardianp (~gp@anon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20140527 15:01:03 <sgothel> so .. we have to 'pay forward' to get in new paying customers ofc .. they are free to contact us
20140527 15:01:51 <sgothel> maybe one day we can hire ourselves .. but we are not really there yet at all :)
20140527 15:02:40 <sgothel> but very glad that we have so many contributors keeping the project alive, like you all here - THANK YOU
20140527 15:03:30 <zubzub> you can thank me when I added the newt wayland support (if somebody doesn't do it before I do)
20140527 15:03:41 <zubzub> but it'll be a while before that happens :)
20140527 15:04:07 <sgothel> you hit my nerve .. planned for our BOF, but dunno whether I can do it .. since GraphUI is on focus
20140527 15:05:17 <zubzub> I'm looking at the outlineshape class and it looks like it can do pretty much what I want
20140527 15:07:48 <zubzub> aaanway it'll be a while before I can render shm wayland clients in an jogl powered wayland compositor
20140527 15:10:19 <sgothel> right, I would only start doing a wayland client impl. of NEWT - your goals seems cool though .. what does an JOGL wayland compositor server for ?
20140527 15:10:59 <sgothel> (since it's w/o network connectivity .. not for remote apps like X11)
20140527 15:11:11 <zubzub> what's it for?
20140527 15:11:24 <sgothel> err .. yeah .. purpose .. goals .. goodies ..
20140527 15:11:32 <zubzub> fun
20140527 15:11:32 <zubzub> :p
20140527 15:11:33 <sgothel> me blind .. sorry
20140527 15:11:34 <sgothel> ah
20140527 15:11:52 <zubzub> I have a rpi and a nice touchscreen
20140527 15:11:58 <zubzub> going to try to run it
20140527 15:12:17 <zubzub> also going to make a nice simple DE
20140527 15:12:27 <zubzub> maybe one day people will customize/use it themself
20140527 15:13:05 <zubzub> but mostly it's learning and improving my coding skill :)
20140527 15:13:11 <sgothel> interesting use-case indeed .. i.e. using a java based tech for it
20140527 15:13:49 <sgothel> since you won't expose wayland client APIs (wayland 'server') .. or will you ?
20140527 15:14:16 <sgothel> then .. this could allow wayland apps to run on .. other things :)
20140527 15:14:38 <zubzub> nope not imediately
20140527 15:15:13 <zubzub> well you could use it to run wayland apps on android if you use an android application buffer as your final compositor output
20140527 15:15:21 <zubzub> however somebody else is already doing that
20140527 15:16:05 <zubzub> https://github.com/jekstrand/libwlb
20140527 15:16:07 <sgothel> ah .. yup, some native wayland impl. comes to mind running on top of Androids stack
20140527 15:16:50 <sgothel> nice nice
20140527 15:17:16 <zubzub> as for me, I just have a fetish for DE's & WM's
20140527 15:17:27 <sgothel> adding a NEWT/JOGL backend w/ your compositor .. complete
20140527 15:20:56 <zubzub> that's the plan :)
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20140527 15:50:53 <rmk0> apitrace fixed \o/
20140527 15:51:15 <rmk0> it didn't get along with JOGL's way of probing profiles
20140527 15:51:47 <rmk0> newer mesa versions appeared to get stricter with GLXBadFBConfig errors
20140527 15:52:28 <rmk0> apitrace needed an update to catch the error... you probably wouldn't hit the error in other opengl programs because most others don't have JOGL's system of checking for available profiles
20140527 15:52:30 <sgothel> ?
20140527 15:52:54 <rmk0> sgothel: that apitrace "opengl debugger": http://apitrace.github.io
20140527 15:52:58 <sgothel> ah ..
20140527 15:53:09 <rmk0> version 5.0 with newer versions of mesa was very unhappy with JOGL programs
20140527 15:53:12 <sgothel> well, I use our DebugGL pipeline :)
20140527 15:53:22 <rmk0> reported it, they fixed it in their trunk
20140527 15:53:25 <rmk0> very good response
20140527 15:53:51 <sgothel> also Mesa 10.1 (?) Debian Jessie passed most tests ..
20140527 15:53:52 <sgothel> nice
20140527 15:53:56 <rmk0> i use DebugGL too, but apitrace can examine textures on the GPU and so on, is very nice
20140527 15:54:01 <sgothel> (AMD oss)
20140527 15:54:10 <sgothel> ah
20140527 15:54:18 <sgothel> earmarking ..
20140527 15:54:19 <rmk0> am on 10.1.4 on a radeon here
20140527 15:54:34 <sgothel> an can do ES3 etc .. ?
20140527 15:54:34 <rmk0> 10.1.4 finally exposed a full core 3.3 context
20140527 15:54:49 <rmk0> it claims to expose ES3, but i'm not convinced it's really compatible yet
20140527 15:54:55 <rmk0> will check more carefully later
20140527 15:55:07 <sgothel> yes it showed me the issue w/ Bug https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1009
20140527 15:55:18 <rmk0> for ages they were exposing ES3 but actually only exposing GLSL ES 1.0
20140527 15:55:24 <sgothel> also latest NV driver
20140527 15:55:40 <sgothel> didn't check closely .. only on failed tests :)
20140527 15:55:46 <rmk0> hehe
20140527 15:56:01 <sgothel> and since we add the GLSL version at runtime ..
20140527 15:56:52 <rmk0> https://apitrace.github.io/images/screenshots/textures.png ♥
20140527 15:57:24 <sgothel> nice ..
20140527 15:57:45 <rmk0> is also good in that it records streams of opengl calls that you can give to other people
20140527 15:57:52 <sgothel> should get a student to create a new DebugGL / TraceGL pipeline recording all those things ..
20140527 15:58:06 <sgothel> hehe
20140527 15:58:11 <sgothel> synthetic tests
20140527 15:58:18 <rmk0> can replay back other people's streams without having to run their program
20140527 15:58:35 <rmk0> includes texture data and all that
20140527 15:58:39 <sgothel> shouldn't be too hard to add such a recorder .. hmm
20140527 15:58:51 <rmk0> nope, is pretty easy, i think
20140527 15:59:10 <sgothel> we could create a java source file :)
20140527 15:59:19 <rmk0> they intercept GLX calls as well, which i think is a bit nastier
20140527 15:59:32 <rmk0> JOGL was handling errors properly, but their replayer wasn't
20140527 15:59:36 <rmk0> which was what led to my bug report
20140527 16:00:00 <sgothel> ah .. get it ..
20140527 16:00:10 <sgothel> yes .. GLX/WGL/ .. etc .. would need a debug pipeline
20140527 16:00:23 <sgothel> however .. apitrace is there .. cool! thx for the heads up
20140527 16:00:47 <rmk0> valve have their own similar tool... is nowhere near as mature though
20140527 16:00:48 <rmk0> "vogl"
20140527 16:00:55 <rmk0> it crashed immediately when i tried it
20140527 16:01:12 <sgothel> heard about it .. w/ that disclaimer .. (only used internally w/ their use cases)
20140527 16:01:27 <rmk0> yeah...
20140527 16:01:41 <rmk0> seems like wasted effort really
20140527 16:01:52 <rmk0> apitrace is already "better"
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20140528 05:05:16 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140528050516.html