JogAmp IRC Chat Logs

#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20140829 05:05:39 (UTC)

20140829 05:05:39 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140827161439.html
20140829 05:05:39 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140829050539.html
20140829 06:08:41 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 06:30:39 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 06:57:10 * eclesia (~husky@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 06:57:16 <eclesia> good morning
20140829 08:57:27 * rmk0 (~rmk0@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 09:16:53 * sgothel (~sgothel@anon) Quit (*.net *.split)
20140829 09:17:07 * sgothel (~sgothel@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 09:45:12 <xranby> @Max @Sven: the leap motion "SDK" is only a binary blob + an EULA that restricts redistribution of the combined work
20140829 09:46:07 <monsieur_max> xranby: ah crap, any chance of finding an alternative ?
20140829 09:46:08 <xranby> there is one effort to create a fully GPLv3 driver for the leap https://github.com/elinalijouvni/OpenLeap/network
20140829 09:46:13 <monsieur_max> great
20140829 09:46:27 <xranby> this GPLv3 driver still require the blob to prime the LEAP
20140829 09:46:37 <xranby> there is some firmware upload
20140829 09:46:59 <xranby> but the researchers here have been able to use the leap without the blob after the initial upload is done
20140829 09:47:57 <xranby> do note that the openleap.org website (run by the creators of the leap) do not include any of the GPLv3 licensed code
20140829 09:48:32 <xranby> their git only include elinalijouvni's code up to the commit before she relicensed the work explicitly as gplv3
20140829 09:50:22 <xranby> elinalijouvni has described the situation well in the readme https://github.com/elinalijouvni/OpenLeap/blob/master/README.md
20140829 09:52:06 <xranby> nuclearmistacke has made the leap usefull for robotics in his branch by mimic some of the closed source binary blobs functionality using opencv https://github.com/nuclearmistake/OpenLeap
20140829 09:53:01 <bbbruce> I am working on some Kinect2 + DK2 stuff
20140829 09:53:23 <xranby> i recommend that you collaborate with these two people to get the leap into usable state without having to accept the leap SDK eula
20140829 09:53:27 <bbbruce> but my Kinect2 essentially wraps around Microsofts Kinect SDK
20140829 09:53:54 <bbbruce> +code
20140829 09:53:57 <xranby> bbbruce: how about using the opensource kinect libs?
20140829 09:54:07 <bbbruce> they are close to useless
20140829 09:54:36 <xranby> http://openkinect.org/wiki/Main_Page openkinect and libfreenect
20140829 09:54:47 <bbbruce> essentially, the open source libs don't do any of the usefull stuff, like skeletal tracking
20140829 09:55:23 <xranby> ok so same issue with kinnect compared to leap
20140829 09:55:37 <xranby> all the magic like skeletal tracking happens in the blob
20140829 09:55:47 * MacTuitu1 (~tuitui@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 09:56:02 <xranby> leap without the blob == infrared stereo camera + lens
20140829 09:56:20 <bbbruce> yes, with the difference being that with the Kinect it is still possible to get the raw data from the device
20140829 09:57:57 * masterzen (~masterzen@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20140829 09:59:20 <bbbruce> for me the closed libs for Kinect are good enough, the only downside is that I am forced to work on Windows
20140829 10:03:46 * jk4_ (~jk4@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 10:03:57 * masterzen (~masterzen@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 10:07:14 <xranby> the cutting edge using -> driver blob for GPU + driver blob for Input + driverblob for display -> makes me bleed inside :/
20140829 10:08:32 <xranby> that feeling fuels the desire to have -> free software GPU driver + free software input + free software display -> makes me feel ok inside
20140829 10:09:27 * jk4 (~jk4@anon) Quit (*.net *.split)
20140829 10:09:28 * MacTuitui (~tuitui@anon) Quit (*.net *.split)
20140829 10:12:22 <sgothel> yup
20140829 10:19:31 <xranby> @Bruce: if you combine libfreenect + Skeltrack , or openleap + Skeltrack you should get what you want ! https://github.com/joaquimrocha/Skeltrack
20140829 10:20:51 <xranby> http://vimeo.com/38875885 Skeltrack: A Free Software library for skeleton tracking
20140829 10:22:12 <bbbruce> how good is skeltrack
20140829 10:22:13 <bbbruce> ?
20140829 10:22:28 <bbbruce> I use the Kinect library because the skeletal tracking is top notch
20140829 10:22:47 <xranby> i assume it do whats done in the video.. Skeltrack is based on one of the latest research papers on the topic
20140829 10:23:07 <bbbruce> the video does not even come close to what the Kinect library does though
20140829 10:23:29 <xranby> its based on the Andreas Baak's paper: A Data-Driven Approach for Real-Time Full Body Pose Reconstruction from a Depth Camera
20140829 10:23:49 <xranby> https://people.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~theobalt/2011_Baak_ICCV.pdf
20140829 10:24:00 <bbbruce> I have seen an implementation for that before, without the data driven part :)
20140829 10:24:40 <bbbruce> "It is implemented with GLib and uses plain mathematics to detect the human skeleton and although it does not use any database, it was inspired by Andreas Baak's paper"
20140829 10:25:06 <bbbruce> I think it was this one
20140829 10:25:17 <bbbruce> GLib scared me
20140829 10:25:59 <xranby> the SDK EULA scares me
20140829 10:32:17 <xranby> + the (spyware?) blobs scare me
20140829 10:40:22 <bbbruce> Yeah, all those things are not nice, sadly I am forced to go with the closed solution because in most cases the open+free solutions are just not good enough for what I am building.
20140829 10:42:15 * zzuegg (~zzuegg@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 10:42:36 <xranby> http://vimeo.com/88234032 Skeltrack: A Free Software library for skeleton tracking (LinuxTag 2012)
20140829 10:45:02 <xranby> bbbruce: the microsoft kinect SDK, has a clause: "The Kinect for Windows SDK beta provides hobbyists and researchers with the tools to develop non-commercial applications"
20140829 10:47:02 <xranby> i am not sure about your usecase, but for all my usecases a non-commectial clause makes me unable to use it
20140829 10:47:53 <bbbruce> true, but this is clause that exists on the beta SDK only
20140829 10:47:56 <bbbruce> +a
20140829 10:48:02 * zzuegg2 (~zzuegg@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 10:48:17 <bbbruce> or at least, I expect it to be on the beta SDK only
20140829 10:53:51 <xranby> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/develop/sdk-eula.aspx
20140829 10:54:17 <xranby> "You may not use the software in a live operating environment unless Microsoft permits you to do so
20140829 10:54:17 <xranby> under another agreement.
20140829 10:54:17 <xranby> • Telemetry. Microsoft will collect telemetry data (e.g., operating system, number of processors, graphic
20140829 10:54:17 <xranby> chipset, memory, device type, locale, time) in order to improve the Kinect sensor product. The data will
20140829 10:54:17 <xranby> not be used to identify specific individuals."
20140829 10:54:36 <xranby> so they have the spyware installed
20140829 10:55:51 * masterzen (~masterzen@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20140829 10:55:52 * zzuegg (~zzuegg@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20140829 10:56:00 * odin_ (~Odin@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20140829 10:57:58 * masterzen (~masterzen@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 11:03:07 -tomaw- [Global Notice] Hi all. As you've probably noticed we're having some connectivity issues across some of our servers today. Sadly this is again due to DDoS attacks. Please join us in a collective sigh.
20140829 11:04:20 * odin_ (~Odin@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 11:08:01 <bbbruce> we just have to trust Microsoft with that :(
20140829 11:08:18 <bbbruce> or well, I
20140829 11:20:31 * zzuegg (~zzuegg@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 11:22:22 * zzuegg2 (~zzuegg@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
20140829 11:26:27 * zzuegg2 (~zzuegg@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 11:27:35 * zzuegg (~zzuegg@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
20140829 11:27:36 * xranby (~xranby@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
20140829 11:28:34 * xranby (~xranby@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 15:03:58 * bbbruce (~bx@anon) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20140829 15:04:35 * bbbruce (~bx@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 15:48:52 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
20140829 15:53:51 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20140829 16:06:18 * eclesia (~husky@anon) has left #jogamp
20140829 17:01:07 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 18:49:43 * Eclesia (~eclesia@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 18:49:49 <Eclesia> hi
20140829 18:50:05 <Eclesia> I have a strange bug with the blit operation
20140829 18:50:46 <Eclesia> once I use an FBO as target for a blit, I can't use it to draw later
20140829 18:52:15 <Eclesia> Is there something I missed ? http://pastebin.com/3g6fwjYw
20140829 19:41:39 <Eclesia> any idea ?
20140829 19:47:41 <Eclesia> sgothel: help Ho great grand master, your worthy follower is in a pinch ^^
20140829 20:41:54 <rmk0> .o.
20140829 20:43:49 <rmk0> Eclesia: how do you mean you can't use it to draw later?
20140829 20:44:23 <Eclesia> rmk0: it's as it the texture was locked
20140829 20:44:49 <rmk0> not... sure what that means
20140829 20:44:55 <Eclesia> rmk0: I bind the fbo like for any usual drawing but it's never updated
20140829 20:45:06 <rmk0> ugh
20140829 20:45:10 <Eclesia> the clearbuffer doesn't update it either
20140829 20:45:24 <Eclesia> only blit operations seems to modify it...
20140829 20:46:56 <Eclesia> I believe it's something I didn't reset properly but I can't find what
20140829 20:46:57 <rmk0> those glReadBuffer and glDrawBuffer calls are suspicious
20140829 20:47:27 <Eclesia> yeah I tryed to set them on GL_NONE or GL_FRONT after but no effect
20140829 20:47:38 <rmk0> i think their state may be per-framebuffer
20140829 20:47:47 <rmk0> i always forget
20140829 20:47:51 * rmk0 eyes state tables
20140829 20:48:11 <Eclesia> per-framebuffer ?
20140829 20:50:34 <rmk0> i think when you're calling glDrawBuffer or glReadBuffer, you're setting a bit of state on the currently bound framebuffer(s)
20140829 20:50:51 <GTB3NW> Hey, I'm trying to call a method which draws a simple square, I'm calling it from the display method however it doesn't draw
20140829 20:51:27 <GTB3NW> I've passed my GLAutoDrawable and tried passing the GL2 to draw with, however neither work
20140829 20:51:46 <rmk0> GTB3NW: you tried DebugGL?
20140829 20:51:57 <Eclesia> GTB3NW: you must be in the display method (gl thread)
20140829 20:52:02 <GTB3NW> rmk0, I haven't can you direct me?
20140829 20:52:14 <GTB3NW> Eclesia, okay I figured but is there no way around that?
20140829 20:52:25 <rmk0> GTB3NW: i assume you've got a line that looks something like: GL2 gl = context.getGL2();
20140829 20:52:28 <rmk0> ?
20140829 20:52:29 <rmk0> in the draw method
20140829 20:53:00 <GTB3NW> in my square method you mean? nah I just passed the gl2 from display
20140829 20:53:10 <rmk0> er, in display i mean
20140829 20:53:28 <GTB3NW> correct, I get the GL2 from the autodrawable
20140829 20:53:33 <rmk0> can do:
20140829 20:53:42 <rmk0> GL2 gl = new DebugGL2(context.getGL2());
20140829 20:54:01 <GTB3NW> okay and this should do what?
20140829 20:54:09 <rmk0> that'll check for errors on every opengl call, and raise an exception if something's wrong
20140829 20:54:34 <rmk0> will at least eliminate obvious mistakes, leaving only the non-obvious ones!
20140829 20:54:51 <GTB3NW> No errors
20140829 20:55:21 <GTB3NW> would you like me to pastebin the affected sections?
20140829 20:55:29 <rmk0> you can always try!
20140829 20:55:55 <GTB3NW> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=MxLMgSS6
20140829 20:55:57 <rmk0> Eclesia: yeah, page 214 (pdf page 229) of the 3.3 spec:
20140829 20:56:03 <rmk0> The state required to handle color buffer selection for each framebuffer is an
20140829 20:56:06 <rmk0> integer for each supported fragment color. For the default framebuffer, in the initial
20140829 20:56:23 <rmk0> so you're actually mutilating the current draw buffer selection for each framebuffer, and need to set it back to whatever it was when you're done blitting
20140829 20:56:36 * rmk0 eyes paste
20140829 20:56:45 <GTB3NW> cheers :)
20140829 20:57:02 <GTB3NW> ignore the calllist line
20140829 20:57:16 <GTB3NW> I was just using it to see the javadoc for that method :P
20140829 20:57:43 <rmk0> i'd... not expect that to produce any output, for a number of reasons
20140829 20:57:49 <rmk0> i... assume you've not got much opengl experience?
20140829 20:58:20 <rmk0> i think you might be assuming that that would draw a square from (0,0) to (100,100)?
20140829 20:58:38 <GTB3NW> correct
20140829 20:58:42 <GTB3NW> on both accounts
20140829 20:58:44 <Eclesia> ^^
20140829 20:58:45 <rmk0> hehe
20140829 20:58:56 <Eclesia> space is in -1...+1
20140829 20:59:19 <GTB3NW> I've set it up so 0,0 is top left
20140829 20:59:44 <rmk0> with glOrtho or something similar?
20140829 20:59:54 <GTB3NW> the former
20140829 21:00:06 <GTB3NW> want me to paste the init?
20140829 21:00:10 <rmk0> might help!
20140829 21:00:31 <GTB3NW> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wTFVtSzU
20140829 21:01:28 <GTB3NW> Uncommenting the code in the display method displays the square fine by the way
20140829 21:01:49 <rmk0> ...
20140829 21:02:24 <rmk0> erm
20140829 21:03:08 <GTB3NW> stumped? :(
20140829 21:03:19 <rmk0> ...
20140829 21:03:27 <rmk0> you've mangled the parameters to the cube() call
20140829 21:03:57 <rmk0> declared: int x1, int x2, int y1, int y2
20140829 21:04:06 <rmk0> but you pass: x1, y1, x2, y2
20140829 21:04:18 <GTB3NW> and it's fixed!
20140829 21:04:22 <rmk0> hehe
20140829 21:04:28 <GTB3NW> -.- I'll crawl in a hole
20140829 21:04:35 <GTB3NW> Thank you for your help :)
20140829 21:04:38 <rmk0> it happens
20140829 21:05:43 <rmk0> in other news, i just discovered that blender is incapable of exporting multiple animations to a file format that's actually readable
20140829 21:05:52 <rmk0> which... is a major, major issue in my opinion
20140829 21:06:07 <GTB3NW> get it on an issue tracker :P
20140829 21:06:15 <rmk0> their collada code is unmaintained and may be removed, they don't care
20140829 21:06:40 <rmk0> and they don't appear to have any other way to get data out (they'll advise you to write a python plugin, and i'd rather saw off my legs than do that)
20140829 21:07:21 <rmk0> am probably going to end up writing a small program to do skeletal animation... just do the modelling and rigging inside blender and then animate the rigs outside
20140829 21:07:24 <rmk0> frustrating
20140829 21:07:39 <GTB3NW> :(
20140829 21:07:50 <rmk0> expected better from a project that should be all over open file formats
20140829 21:13:58 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20140829 21:20:05 * gouessej (5279c957@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 21:20:39 <gouessej> Hi
20140829 21:20:53 <gouessej> rmk0 I didn't imagine that it was still so bad in Blender
20140829 21:21:03 <gouessej> rmk0: It's worse than I thought
20140829 21:21:27 <rmk0> lo
20140829 21:21:39 <rmk0> yeah... not sure what they think they're doing
20140829 21:21:49 <gouessej> it's not serious! They should maintain the collada export
20140829 21:22:07 <gouessej> I'm fed up, I won't implement a Blender importer
20140829 21:22:12 <gouessej> it's unmaintainable
20140829 21:22:16 <rmk0> definitely
20140829 21:22:49 <gouessej> It's still broken. Their format is often changing
20140829 21:23:00 <gouessej> it can't be use as an interchange format
20140829 21:23:03 <gouessej> "used"
20140829 21:23:40 <gouessej> I assume that it still exports only the first frame :s
20140829 21:23:52 <rmk0> not tried
20140829 21:24:03 <rmk0> all my animations are stored as actions, so there's nothing on the main timeline
20140829 21:24:05 <gouessej> How did you contact its developers?
20140829 21:24:26 <rmk0> i didn't... i asked in their channel, got no response, poked about on their issue tracker
20140829 21:24:41 <rmk0> all issues opened on the collada exporter are marked as "archived"
20140829 21:24:52 <rmk0> there's no maintainer, so nobody's going to fix any issues anyway
20140829 21:25:21 <gouessej> It's not reasonable :(
20140829 21:25:35 <rmk0> seems like everyone that uses blender for producing stuff for unity uses the fbx file format
20140829 21:25:47 <gouessej> which is proprietary
20140829 21:25:48 <rmk0> requires a proprietary sdk to read the binary format, and the ascii format is undocumented and nonsensical
20140829 21:26:04 <gouessej> I won't touch this crap
20140829 21:26:09 <rmk0> nope
20140829 21:26:35 <gouessej> I don't work for free, supporting proprietary formats means working for their blackboxes
20140829 21:26:54 <rmk0> so, as i said, my currently plan is to implement a skeletal animation system with some sort of program for producing animations
20140829 21:27:05 <rmk0> i can get mesh and skeleton out of blender reliably, in a lot of different ways
20140829 21:27:19 <rmk0> so i'll just do the animation outside and have my own open and documented formats for it
20140829 21:27:20 <gouessej> without scripts?
20140829 21:27:28 <rmk0> yeah, no scripts required
20140829 21:27:43 <rmk0> they reliably export skeleton and mesh data to all of the supported formats, including collada
20140829 21:28:19 <gouessej> What's still missing?
20140829 21:28:29 <gouessej> (just to be accurate)
20140829 21:28:46 <rmk0> well if you're familiar with the way blender works, you create animations via "actions"
20140829 21:29:00 <rmk0> like, you might have one action called "walk", one called "run", "jump", etc
20140829 21:29:11 <rmk0> just... named animations, basically
20140829 21:29:24 <rmk0> it can't export those
20140829 21:29:33 <gouessej> ok :s
20140829 21:29:44 <rmk0> so you can create a mesh, rig it with an armature, create a load of animations for it... and then can't get them out of blender
20140829 21:30:32 <gouessej> There is already some support of skeletal animations in JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation but you probably don't need it
20140829 21:30:39 <GTB3NW> If I'm animating the square, it leaves a trail, I assume I need to clear the color buffer bit each frame?
20140829 21:30:54 <rmk0> GTB3NW: yep, was going to suggest that earlier
20140829 21:31:05 <gouessej> GTB3NW: yes, call glClear, you already do that
20140829 21:31:11 <gouessej> don't you?
20140829 21:31:17 <GTB3NW> I am now :)
20140829 21:31:17 <rmk0> gouessej: i'm quite interested in implemented an IK system... seems like it'd be an enjoyable project
20140829 21:31:26 <rmk0> *implementing
20140829 21:31:45 <gouessej> rmk0: IK?
20140829 21:31:51 <rmk0> inverse kinematics
20140829 21:32:07 <rmk0> grabbing a hand and pulling it, and having the arm joints bend to follow the hand
20140829 21:32:22 <gouessej> someone already tried to do that last year in Ardor3D
20140829 21:32:32 <rmk0> tried?
20140829 21:32:48 <gouessej> yes, there are some posts about that on the forum
20140829 21:32:51 <gouessej> maybe some code
20140829 21:32:53 <gouessej> ...
20140829 21:33:12 <rmk0> going to start from scratch... you know me
20140829 21:33:24 <rmk0> this is a spiritual pursuit as much as anything!
20140829 21:33:27 <gouessej> Eclesia
20140829 21:33:33 <rmk0> http://waste.io7m.com/2014/08/29/krav.mkv
20140829 21:33:40 <gouessej> in 2012
20140829 21:34:05 <Eclesia> gouessej: hi
20140829 21:34:14 <gouessej> ardor3d.forumatic.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5738
20140829 21:34:21 <gouessej> http://ardor3d.forumatic.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5738
20140829 21:34:28 <Eclesia> rmk0: I have IK already if you need the code
20140829 21:34:32 <GTB3NW> I've set one static cube to a different color but the animated cube has the same color, is there some way to reset the color?
20140829 21:34:38 <rmk0> Eclesia: if i find i can't do it, yes
20140829 21:35:09 <GTB3NW> the color gets set after the animated cube, so I assume it carries over..
20140829 21:35:27 <Eclesia> gouessej: you have seen my codesprint game ?
20140829 21:35:42 <gouessej> Eclesia: I don't think so
20140829 21:35:47 <rmk0> GTB3NW: glColor3f(...);
20140829 21:36:01 <rmk0> GTB3NW: is there some reason you're using the old fixed-function pipeline?
20140829 21:36:03 <GTB3NW> rmk0, so I just have to set it back to white essentially?
20140829 21:36:16 <rmk0> whatever color you set stays set
20140829 21:36:19 <GTB3NW> rmk0, I have no idea what that means?
20140829 21:36:23 <Eclesia> gouessej: http://jsorel.developpez.com/wejv/preview.ogv
20140829 21:36:26 <GTB3NW> okay makes sense
20140829 21:36:35 <GTB3NW> @ color staying say
20140829 21:36:36 <GTB3NW> same*
20140829 21:36:37 <rmk0> GTB3NW: about the fixed function pipeline?
20140829 21:36:46 <gouessej> Eclesia: yes really cool :)
20140829 21:36:49 <GTB3NW> yes, I don't understand what you mean by that
20140829 21:37:10 <Eclesia> ^^
20140829 21:37:26 <rmk0> GTB3NW: you're basically using parts of the API that were deprecated a long time ago... is recommend that new code use shaders, vertex buffer objects, etc
20140829 21:37:40 <rmk0> *recommended
20140829 21:37:51 <gouessej> Eclesia: I'm far from that, I still have to create an RPM and a DEB file for my FPS
20140829 21:37:53 <gouessej> :s
20140829 21:37:54 <GTB3NW> is there any straight forward guide on that?
20140829 21:37:59 <rmk0> http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/
20140829 21:38:04 <GTB3NW> or are you talking in regards to I'm using gl2?
20140829 21:38:06 <rmk0> is fairly decent, if a bit... broken english in some places
20140829 21:38:19 <rmk0> GL2 does represent the fixed function API, i think
20140829 21:38:52 <GTB3NW> is there really any downside?
20140829 21:38:56 <gouessej> My crosshair blinks sometimes, I don't know why
20140829 21:39:05 <gouessej> Eclesia: yours seems to work
20140829 21:39:25 <GTB3NW> thanks for the link and help FYI, bet it gets annoying with newbs like me :p
20140829 21:39:38 <rmk0> not at all
20140829 21:39:46 <Eclesia> gouessej: it's just a mesh in front of the camera
20140829 21:39:49 <GTB3NW> It's just hard to find help for it which is relevant to the current day and age, everything is so fragmented online
20140829 21:40:01 <gouessej> GTB3NW: You're not annoying and we're here to help others
20140829 21:40:05 <rmk0> there are quite a few downsides to the fixed function API in my opinion... performance is one, correctness is another, inflexibility, etc...
20140829 21:40:21 <rmk0> it's easier to get started with it, but harder to achieve anything more complex
20140829 21:40:34 <GTB3NW> gouessej, thanks :P
20140829 21:40:39 <gouessej> he may learn shaders later anyway
20140829 21:40:44 <rmk0> it's also... absolutely giant
20140829 21:40:57 <rmk0> they removed a *LOT* of things when they deprecated the API
20140829 21:41:16 <rmk0> none of which had any relevance to modern graphics hardware
20140829 21:41:22 <GTB3NW> rmk0, to be honest the project I'm trying to achieve is fairly simple, I doubt I'll need to use anything but the fixed function api
20140829 21:41:39 <gouessej> Eclesia: I disable the depth test and I draw mine at first, before anything else
20140829 21:41:43 <Eclesia> gouessej: source code public domain as always :D https://bitbucket.org/Eclesia/unlicense-gamebase
20140829 21:41:44 <rmk0> GTB3NW: what's it?
20140829 21:41:56 <GTB3NW> to give you an idea.. it's just a top down view of a road junction and cars will be driving on i
20140829 21:42:03 <GTB3NW> all shitty pixel stuff
20140829 21:42:14 <GTB3NW> I'm just trying to do some AI with visualization
20140829 21:42:28 <rmk0> right
20140829 21:43:13 <gouessej> It reminds me that I'll have to do something to separate the update calls from the render calls
20140829 21:43:31 <GTB3NW> I've been told opengl is a beast to learn for something that simple, but everything else everyone suggested was either old/deprecated or the simple start guides were fragmented and a PITA to learn :P
20140829 21:44:09 <GTB3NW> thanks for all your help folks :) Gonna watch some more tv shows and get to bed :P
20140829 21:44:12 <rmk0> the current API (say opengl 3.3ish) is reasonably small and sane (compared to how it was before)
20140829 21:44:31 <GTB3NW> better for my project or not though?
20140829 21:44:40 <rmk0> but it's hard to learn as it's weakly typed (meaing you can't experiment safely), and there are a lot of concepts you need to learn
20140829 21:45:05 <gouessej> Don't worry, you can learn the concepts step by step
20140829 21:45:20 <Eclesia> rmk0: https://bitbucket.org/Eclesia/unlicense/src/tip/api/api-physics/src/main/java/un/api/physic/skeleton/?at=default
20140829 21:45:21 <GTB3NW> I wasn't really wanting to delve too deeply, just the basics so I can complete a simple visual for the AI :P
20140829 21:45:21 <rmk0> is difficult to say what's "better", i mean... i'd exclude the fixed function pipeline solely on the fact that it's deprecated
20140829 21:45:31 <rmk0> is questionable how long it'll survive
20140829 21:45:31 <GTB3NW> night & peace!
20140829 21:45:34 <rmk0> byeee!
20140829 21:45:45 <rmk0> Eclesia: appreciate it, but i'm not going to peek just yet
20140829 21:45:56 <GTB3NW> it's only for me to play with, not releasing :p
20140829 21:45:57 <rmk0> want to explore the mathematics myself, and try to implement something
20140829 21:46:04 <Eclesia> just keep the link ^^ use it if you need
20140829 21:46:29 <rmk0> is good to know it exists if needed
20140829 21:46:50 <rmk0> java has shitloads of libraries, but it's lacking when it comes to things that would normally be used for 3D engines
20140829 21:47:04 <rmk0> just isn't a great deal of stuff out there in that area
20140829 21:47:37 <rmk0> everyone flocks towards c++ obviously, presumably because they're bored with taking the seatbelts out of their cars and cutting their own break lines for fun
20140829 21:47:48 <rmk0> ... brake
20140829 21:47:55 <rmk0> /o/
20140829 21:48:29 <Eclesia> they still believe c++ is faster... doesn't make any difference anymore since everything is on the gpu
20140829 21:48:38 <rmk0> urhur
20140829 21:48:58 <rmk0> programmers tend not to cope with new ideas too well
20140829 21:49:27 <gouessej> Eclesia: I don't
20140829 21:49:52 <Eclesia> but you don't code in C++ right ?
20140829 21:50:16 <gouessej> Eclesia: You're wrong, I have a strong knowledge of C and I coded a bit with C++
20140829 21:50:40 <gouessej> When I switched to JOGL, my own code was a bit faster :)
20140829 21:50:41 <Eclesia> sorry ^^
20140829 21:50:46 <gouessej> even on a crappy machine
20140829 21:50:58 <gouessej> from C++/Glut/OpenGL
20140829 21:51:01 <gouessej> to JOGl
20140829 21:51:03 <gouessej> JOGL
20140829 21:51:25 <rmk0> i don't think java is faster in general, but i think the difference is small enough not to worry about
20140829 21:51:36 <rmk0> and the performance critical stuff moved off the cpu anyway, so it just doesn't matter
20140829 21:51:41 * void256 (~void@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140829 21:52:05 <Eclesia> argggg, I can't fix this blit thing...
20140829 21:52:12 <rmk0> /o\
20140829 21:53:06 <gouessej> I haven't finished to write the new user guide for JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation. Do you think that releasing it unfinished but with the most important part is better than waiting for one more month to release it?
20140829 21:54:02 * zzuegg2 (~zzuegg@anon) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
20140829 21:54:04 <Eclesia> not sure if it will make any difference
20140829 21:55:05 <gouessej> I will post as much information as possible about the examples
20140829 21:55:25 <gouessej> Anyway, only a few people might use it :(
20140829 21:56:19 <gouessej> Most of the projects that used Ardor3D are discontinued or switched to another technology
20140829 21:56:44 <Eclesia> honestly, I think you are wasting your time
20140829 21:57:02 <Eclesia> unless you find another dev
20140829 22:00:57 <Eclesia> argg, even worse. now I have locked both my multisample fbo and the blit on
20140829 22:00:59 <Eclesia> one*
20140829 22:01:36 <gouessej> There is no other engine that attempts to support both OpenGL and OpenGL ES, from version 1 to 4. All known engines drop the fixed pipeline
20140829 22:02:40 <gouessej> I'm going to fall asleep. Bye.
20140829 22:02:42 <gouessej> Good night
20140829 22:02:46 <Eclesia> bye
20140829 22:02:47 * gouessej (5279c957@anon) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
20140829 22:18:35 <Eclesia> good night ++
20140829 22:18:38 * Eclesia (~eclesia@anon) has left #jogamp
20140829 23:16:14 * void256 (~void@anon) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446])
20140830 01:39:25 * sgothel (~sgothel@anon) Quit (*.net *.split)
20140830 01:50:18 * sgothel (~sgothel@anon) has joined #jogamp
20140830 05:05:40 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20140830050540.html