#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20141025 05:06:24 (UTC)
20141025 05:06:24 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141024050624.html
20141025 05:06:24 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141025050624.html
20141025 09:31:50 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20141025 09:45:53 <zzuegg|afk> hello, are shaders not shared between shared contexts? i am getting the same handle if i create a shader on both contexts
20141025 09:51:36 <zzuegg|afk> i am using https://gist.github.com/zzuegg/592b73549048ba5ae172 to create the drawable from the master context
20141025 09:51:42 * zzuegg|afk is now known as zzuegg
20141025 10:44:51 <zzuegg> ah, fixed it by using the setSharedAutoDrawable
20141025 10:49:47 * monsieur_max1 (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20141025 10:52:07 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20141025 11:13:12 * monsieur_max1 is now known as monsieur_max
20141025 15:43:08 * gouessej (5279c0a5@anon) has joined #jogamp
20141025 15:43:16 <gouessej> Hi
20141025 15:44:03 <gouessej> Hi
20141025 15:54:10 <rmk0> lo
20141025 16:04:04 <gouessej> I'm impatient to fix the bug 682
20141025 16:04:15 <gouessej> I'm fed up with conflicts with JOGL 1
20141025 16:05:25 <rmk0> sounds good to me
20141025 16:05:36 <rmk0> i'm in favour of your move to org.jogamp.*
20141025 16:05:38 <rmk0> i like clean breaks
20141025 16:06:28 <gouessej> :)
20141025 16:06:49 <gouessej> but we will have to be very clear about how to use the JARs
20141025 16:07:15 <rmk0> ?
20141025 16:07:18 <gouessej> by discouraging the use of the extension mechanism and the use of the directories within the JVM
20141025 16:07:39 <gouessej> Otherwise, tons of developers will do the same mistakes again and again
20141025 16:07:51 <rmk0> ugh, do people really insert jars into the jvm directories?
20141025 16:08:05 <gouessej> Yes, especially newcomers, newbies, beginners
20141025 16:08:08 <rmk0> dear god
20141025 16:08:39 <gouessej> and even worse, some OS X users just replace the JOGL JARs in the directories used by the extension mechanism
20141025 16:09:22 <gouessej> despite that: http://jogamp.org/jogl/doc/userguide/#badpractice
20141025 16:10:17 <rmk0> you know... i remember being intimidated as hell by the jogl documentation all those years ago
20141025 16:10:55 <sgothel> Hi - IFF we do this now, we need a very nice way to migrate
20141025 16:11:51 <sgothel> I remember there was some tool we used to rewrite projects .. hmm
20141025 16:11:56 <sgothel> where is it ? :)
20141025 16:12:07 <rmk0> rewrite ... projectS?
20141025 16:12:10 <gouessej> Jackpot
20141025 16:12:14 <sgothel> yup
20141025 16:12:17 <sgothel> for example ..
20141025 16:12:37 <gouessej> Changing some import clauses isn't the end of the world
20141025 16:12:44 <sgothel> so when I will do this task, I will apply a jackpot thingy to jogl-demos
20141025 16:12:56 <gouessej> I can do this task
20141025 16:13:00 <sgothel> yeah .. but we do have lots of customers
20141025 16:13:16 <gouessej> But would really use Jackpot?
20141025 16:13:33 <sgothel> I don't know whats 'on the market' today ..
20141025 16:13:36 <rmk0> might be a good idea to announce that it's going to happen before it happens
20141025 16:13:41 <gouessej> yes
20141025 16:13:53 <sgothel> sure .. I will do all this after EGL changes .. for 2.3.0
20141025 16:14:10 <sgothel> should redir inbox -> /dev/null for a while afterwards :)
20141025 16:14:12 <gouessej> Do we agree about the choice of the package names?
20141025 16:14:20 <sgothel> hu?
20141025 16:14:31 <sgothel> removing javax.media .. was the orig. task
20141025 16:14:36 <gouessej> org.jogamp or com.jogamp?
20141025 16:14:48 <sgothel> we keep that one .. com.jogamp AFAIK
20141025 16:14:59 <gouessej> ok, as you wish
20141025 16:15:24 <sgothel> i.e. com -> org rename really does nothing
20141025 16:16:05 <sgothel> but javax.media removes all the issues we have legally, OSX/JRE, .. and well - one more public package namespace
20141025 16:16:06 <gouessej> Personally I prefer using the domain name rather than com.jogamp but we can do as you wish
20141025 16:16:42 <sgothel> noted .. the whole process will take a while, so I will add this in the email
20141025 16:17:03 <sgothel> I already added a few users to the bug report .. nobody yet objected :)
20141025 16:17:19 <rmk0> i like the idea of having a single package root
20141025 16:17:23 <rmk0> i don't really care what it's called
20141025 16:17:48 <sgothel> well, then we have two: com.jogamp.* (public) and jogamp.* (private)
20141025 16:17:52 <gouessej> but we will keep a package for private things, won't we?
20141025 16:17:56 <gouessej> ok
20141025 16:18:32 <rmk0> "what's in jogamp.*?" "i'm not telling you"
20141025 16:18:58 <sgothel> anything non public API, i.e. we can change this anytime .. anyversion
20141025 16:19:00 <gouessej> we don't guarantee the stability of the API
20141025 16:19:04 <sgothel> yup
20141025 16:19:17 <sgothel> and usually we seal it .. *you shall not use that*
20141025 16:19:53 <sgothel> i.e. interfaces and factories to public, impl. to private
20141025 16:20:42 <gouessej> I assume that we won't do it before several months, will we?
20141025 16:22:18 <gouessej> It's possible to create a refactoring script for Eclipse projects or even better an Ant script
20141025 16:22:25 <sgothel> well .. 2.3.0 would be the 1st possibility
20141025 16:23:04 <sgothel> refactoring must be offered w/o IDE on commandline .. or ant - so I will try jackpot .. or any other great CLI tool you know
20141025 16:23:22 <sgothel> for sure .. I will push this to its own branch first .. for us to test
20141025 16:25:41 <gouessej> The replace task would be enough: https://ant.apache.org/manual/Tasks/replace.html
20141025 16:28:10 <gouessej> Should I make an Ant macro and put it into JOGL?
20141025 16:28:27 <sgothel> string based might be too risky
20141025 16:28:38 * rmk0 (~rmk0@anon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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20141025 16:32:21 <gouessej> Why? If I only modify the import clauses, it won't be very risky
20141025 16:33:03 <sgothel> we are talking about a migration path for big projects like WWJ, C3D .. etc etc
20141025 16:33:14 <sgothel> semantic language level editing is required for safety
20141025 16:33:55 <gouessej> I don't see what you mean exactly by "semantic language level"
20141025 16:34:03 <sgothel> ask Mark :)
20141025 16:34:14 <sgothel> i.e. parsing the java source code ..
20141025 16:34:34 <rmk0> _o\ \o| |o/ /o_
20141025 16:34:41 <gouessej> Do you really put package names into comments and code?
20141025 16:34:48 <sgothel> jackpot does that .. for example
20141025 16:35:00 <sgothel> that is another thing we have to adapt .. yes
20141025 16:35:08 <sgothel> i.e. reflection / string based
20141025 16:35:32 <sgothel> the whole task from 'coast (us) to coast (end-user)' might be more complex as it seems
20141025 16:36:00 <sgothel> so I have learned from product validation etc .. that any big change leads to lots of work
20141025 16:36:27 <sgothel> yes, pressing the Eclipse refactoring button is easy :)
20141025 16:36:55 <gouessej> I'll have to modify all engines; JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation, JMonkeyEngine, LibGDX, Java 3D (?), ...
20141025 16:37:03 <sgothel> see ..
20141025 16:37:16 <sgothel> so a perfect automated migration path must exist!
20141025 16:37:25 <gouessej> but it will break tons of crappy tutorials :)
20141025 16:37:34 <sgothel> so users will ask: WHY ?
20141025 16:38:09 <sgothel> for an obsolete OSX/JRE ? nope!
20141025 16:38:18 <sgothel> for beauty ? .. hmm .. :)
20141025 16:38:59 <gouessej> There are several very bad tutorials on Youtube, they work but they are overcomplicated and they claim it's JOGL fault
20141025 16:39:01 <sgothel> IMHO we need another very STRONG reason!
20141025 16:39:12 <gouessej> Look at the bug report again
20141025 16:39:13 <sgothel> unrelated
20141025 16:39:23 <gouessej> Even Processing doesn't work on OS X 10.10
20141025 16:39:30 <sgothel> the legal stuff ..
20141025 16:39:33 <sgothel> hu?
20141025 16:39:38 <gouessej> because of JOGL 1 installed by Java 3D
20141025 16:39:55 <gouessej> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26515228/cant-run-3d-scripts-in-processing-java-opengl-related
20141025 16:39:57 <sgothel> OSX/JRE .. yeah, but that is a corner
20141025 16:40:03 <sgothel> case
20141025 16:40:12 <sgothel> install new JRE .. done
20141025 16:40:26 <gouessej> no because it doesn't remove JOGL 1
20141025 16:40:46 <sgothel> but new JRE doesn't pick up that ext dir ? or does it ?
20141025 16:41:07 <gouessej> I think it doesn't but I'm not sure :s
20141025 16:41:13 <sgothel> ha!
20141025 16:41:28 <sgothel> again: we should have another strong reason!
20141025 16:41:30 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20141025 16:41:44 <gouessej> The problem is that there are several directories used by extensions
20141025 16:42:08 <sgothel> the only one I have in mind is the legal mumbojumbo
20141025 16:42:20 <gouessej> yes
20141025 16:42:30 <sgothel> one more .. would be nice :)
20141025 16:42:41 <sgothel> I hear them already: who cares ? :)
20141025 16:43:25 <sgothel> but .. we do it in a branch .. and see how folks react
20141025 16:43:51 <gouessej> The problem with OS X has been here for several years and I think it is one of the reasons why some developers developed a backend based on another Java binding
20141025 16:52:13 <sgothel> ay
20141025 16:52:34 <sgothel> so we should have a wiki page for the change as well ..
20141025 16:57:47 <gouessej> yes, good idea
20141025 16:58:16 <gouessej> lol it will be at least the second time that we change the package names
20141025 16:58:56 <gouessej> The first time happened when we went from the pre-1 to JOGL 1
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20141026 05:06:25 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141026050625.html