#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20160527 05:06:14 (UTC)
20160527 05:06:14 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160526050614.html
20160527 05:06:14 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160527050614.html
20160527 05:58:01 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160527 05:58:16 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Client Quit)
20160527 06:08:06 * elect (~GBarbieri@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160527 06:19:20 <elect> hi
20160527 07:15:37 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160527 07:15:55 <monsieur_max> hehe just saw the news about the google / oracle trial
20160527 07:37:10 * Eclesia (~husky@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160527 07:37:28 <Eclesia> hi
20160527 07:47:56 <elect> I'd like to lanch an SOS to bruce-, Eclesia, guillaum1, monsieur_max, zubzub and anyone interested in a dev immediate gui to come and help/contribute
20160527 07:48:16 <monsieur_max> dude :) no time for that
20160527 07:48:28 <elect> https://github.com/jovr/imgui
20160527 07:48:34 <monsieur_max> i can't develop games on my spare time to become filthy rich and help open source peasants
20160527 07:48:52 <elect> ^^
20160527 07:50:40 <Eclesia> you already know if it's not public domain it ain't good for me. still you can pick code from the unlicense-lib when you need.
20160527 07:51:00 <elect> it is public
20160527 07:51:05 <Eclesia> MIT license
20160527 07:51:20 <elect> if you want, I can change that
20160527 07:51:23 <elect> I have no problem
20160527 07:51:35 <elect> what do you want?
20160527 07:51:46 <monsieur_max> sex and beers
20160527 07:51:50 <elect> not bad
20160527 07:52:11 <Eclesia> I already have a widget toolkit which is more complete :/
20160527 07:52:26 <monsieur_max> yeah, and it's not bad at all :)
20160527 07:52:59 <zubzub> writing a good widget toolkit is an increddibly complex task
20160527 07:53:00 <elect> I see your widget suitable for end users
20160527 07:53:10 <elect> I'd like the same of imgui
20160527 07:53:17 <elect> immediate mode and light
20160527 07:53:55 <zubzub> I'd rather have some king of hml5-css-js engine without any of the browser semantics
20160527 07:53:59 <zubzub> *kind of
20160527 07:54:36 <elect> can we find a compromise?
20160527 07:55:13 <monsieur_max> beers first, sex after
20160527 07:55:14 <zubzub> don't listen to me, I won't contribute. Maybe if I lose my current job while still having some kind of income I will assist
20160527 07:55:28 <zubzub> I have far to much on my TODO list
20160527 07:55:52 <zubzub> first there's the offline life
20160527 07:56:01 <zubzub> so that leaves very little spare time for online life
20160527 07:56:30 <zubzub> and I'm currently re-focussing on android dev
20160527 07:57:10 <zubzub> not because I want to, but because I have to (non-android java for embedded is pretty dead..)
20160527 08:08:13 <Eclesia> elect: not easy to have contributors :/
20160527 08:08:54 <elect> I had somehow the feeling
20160527 08:11:05 <zubzub> just another widget toolkit is of no use
20160527 08:11:15 <zubzub> perhpas if you do something like qml
20160527 08:12:19 <zubzub> that might be worth it
20160527 08:13:00 <zubzub> the original javafx visage had the right idea
20160527 08:13:04 <elect> I'd like to have something like that for a lot of small projects of mine
20160527 08:13:12 <elect> short demo, tutorials, etc
20160527 08:13:18 <elect> no java there is nothing like that
20160527 08:13:45 <elect> *in
20160527 08:13:46 <zubzub> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaFX_Script#Syntax
20160527 08:14:37 <elect> it's retained
20160527 08:14:56 <elect> I need immediate
20160527 08:15:07 <elect> http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/24103/immediate-gui-yae-or-nay
20160527 08:15:16 <elect> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1qyvQsjK5Y
20160527 08:16:28 <zubzub> ic
20160527 08:16:50 <zubzub> well immediate mode sounds like an overdraw fest
20160527 08:17:22 <elect> https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/issues/123
20160527 08:18:27 <elect> I also thought the same at begin
20160527 08:18:39 <zubzub> "Immediate mode GUIs are tempting for lone programmers who want a quick HUD system, and for that purpose they are great. For anything else... just say no."
20160527 08:19:40 <elect> http://www.gamedev.net/topic/674186-imgui/?view=findpost&p=5268232
20160527 08:19:51 * bigpet (uid25664@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160527 08:20:04 <elect> let's say it is a big discussed point
20160527 08:20:37 <elect> but investing more, I saw I lot of (high pro) devs once they switched to it, they like it
20160527 08:20:51 <elect> I think it mustn't be that bad then
20160527 08:20:54 <elect> at the end
20160527 08:21:13 <elect> then I watched that video I linked
20160527 08:21:31 <elect> that man, Muratori, is the guy who had the idea about immediate gui
20160527 08:21:55 <Eclesia> swing is an immediate gui ...
20160527 08:22:43 <elect> no
20160527 08:22:47 <elect> immediate is
20160527 08:22:59 <elect> if(doButton("text")
20160527 08:23:05 <elect> // do something
20160527 08:23:17 <elect> if you dont have 40m to watch that video
20160527 08:23:40 <elect> take a look at the ending resume summing up all the pros and cons
20160527 08:23:42 <elect> https://youtu.be/Z1qyvQsjK5Y?t=23m57s
20160527 08:24:16 <elect> imgui has born from Muratori concept
20160527 08:24:25 <elect> and nucklear on imgui
20160527 08:24:56 <bruce-> hm
20160527 08:25:01 <bruce-> I don't think it is for me
20160527 08:25:43 <elect> pity
20160527 08:25:54 <zubzub> sounds like direct is more a pure artifact rendering without scene state
20160527 08:26:04 <elect> exactly
20160527 08:26:10 <elect> just a context
20160527 08:26:18 <elect> it's the same of GL and DX
20160527 08:26:24 <elect> both are also immediate rendering mode
20160527 08:26:34 <elect> he also mentions that in the video
20160527 08:26:54 <zubzub> retained is then just immediate + scene model
20160527 08:27:25 <Eclesia> immediate is just a 'Graphics2D' ?
20160527 08:27:38 <bruce-> a lot of the interactive works that I make are usually built on immediate principles
20160527 08:27:52 <elect> also Unity adopted an im gui
20160527 08:28:01 <bruce-> just because thinking about something that would make it non immediate is too hard
20160527 08:29:07 <bruce-> but for widget based UIs -even simple ones- I really don't see the point in doing it in an immediate style
20160527 08:31:00 <zubzub> wouldn't you just end up with 'stamps' ?
20160527 08:35:24 <elect> ?
20160527 08:35:59 <zubzub> configure widget property and call 'render' on it
20160527 08:36:09 <zubzub> widget appears on screen
20160527 08:36:26 * SHC (~quassel@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160527 08:36:38 <zubzub> a bit like you would stamp something on a paper
20160527 08:36:52 <zubzub> the stamp itself has no state
20160527 08:37:02 <elect> a kind of
20160527 08:37:05 <zubzub> it's just a tool for getting something drawn on on the paper
20160527 08:37:11 <elect> yes
20160527 08:40:33 <Eclesia> I really have to start making tutorials. you can do exactly the approach zubzub described with my widget toolkit
20160527 08:41:07 <Eclesia> it's even a little better since it tells you the 'dirty' area
20160527 09:29:53 <xranby> I have gluegen running sucessfully on a 64bit ARM aarch46 system. DragonBoard 410c
20160527 09:30:55 <xranby> This is a nice board! it come with Mesa3D freedreno support pre-installed on Linaro's Debian image
20160527 09:35:57 <Eclesia> xranbyhow many different boards du you have, arduino,raspberry,... ?
20160527 09:42:09 <bruce-> xranby: looks nice indeed, too bad it does not have ethernet on board :(
20160527 09:42:25 <bruce-> and a bit pricy (compared to rpi)
20160527 09:42:40 <xranby> bruce-: yes always something :/
20160527 09:43:01 <xranby> aarch64 images for raspberry pi 3 have started to appear!
20160527 09:43:20 <xranby> Eclesia: too many boards :/
20160527 09:43:51 <zubzub> as long as you don't have #toomanyfiles you should be ok
20160527 09:44:14 <xranby> Eclesia: beagleboard, pandaboard, raspberrypi 1,2,3, c.h.i.p, pine64, dragonboard410c these are my SoC boards
20160527 09:44:53 <xranby> zubzub: i will hopefully survive.. i have lost track on how many files i have
20160527 09:45:05 <xranby> #toomanyfiles
20160527 09:45:09 <xranby> and #toomanyfolders
20160527 09:45:16 <xranby> and #toomanytypes
20160527 09:45:51 <zubzub> I'm thinking of ordering a rpi3 with the rpi touchscreen to run android on it
20160527 09:45:57 <xranby> i also have chromebook1, chromebook 2 and one Toshiba ac100 as ARM32bit work/teststations
20160527 09:46:07 <zubzub> my god xranby you have all the things
20160527 09:46:23 <xranby> zubzub: the pine64 work as an ok android devkit
20160527 09:46:41 <xranby> the raspberry pi 3 do not have good android support
20160527 09:46:48 <zubzub> not yet?
20160527 09:46:58 <zubzub> is should become officially supported no?
20160527 09:47:31 <xranby> zubzub: apparently official since.. yesterday http://thehackernews.com/2016/05/android-Raspberry-Pi3.html
20160527 09:47:47 <zubzub> there it is :)
20160527 09:47:57 <zubzub> so I assume it should have good support(?)
20160527 09:48:16 <xranby> well noone know if this include hardware acceleration or not
20160527 09:48:20 <xranby> i have to eat
20160527 09:48:43 <zubzub> yeah idd
20160527 10:03:28 <zubzub> so it looks like it's mostly brillo?
20160527 10:04:16 <zubzub> so if I get robovm to compile to aarch64 & get my wayland java compositor to run on it, I can "sell" it as a java stack that runs on brillo on rpi3
20160527 10:04:28 <zubzub> and provides a nice customizable ui
20160527 10:04:48 <zubzub> 2) ???
20160527 10:04:51 <zubzub> 3) profit!
20160527 10:09:43 <Eclesia> 4) fan club
20160527 10:09:46 <Eclesia> 5) groopies
20160527 10:10:10 <Eclesia> 6)gold statue
20160527 10:20:13 <zubzub> I can live with that
20160527 10:41:13 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160527 10:52:00 <xranby> (22:09:41) zubzub: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/google-wins-trial-against-oracle-as-jury-finds-android-is-fair-use/
20160527 10:52:00 <xranby> (22:09:46) zubzub: BOOM B*TCH
20160527 10:52:02 <xranby> hurray!
20160527 10:57:50 <xranby> however... the case will be back https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/735942386308636672 oracle plan to bring the case back to Federal Circuit on appeal.
20160527 11:17:22 <zubzub> yeah, everybody expected that
20160527 13:12:16 <xranby> elect: imgui looks.. interesting!
20160527 13:13:41 <xranby> imgui implements this Immediate-Mode Graphical User Interfaces idea https://mollyrocket.com/861
20160527 13:49:18 <xranby> http://www.cse.chalmers.se/edu/year/2011/course/TDA361/Advanced%20Computer%20Graphics/IMGUI.pdf
20160527 13:52:24 <Eclesia> seems like going backward. like moving from GL4 to GL1.
20160527 13:53:10 <Eclesia> without winning much in the end, quoted from one message 'A sophisticated IMGUI library will in fact retain about as much data as an equivalent RMGUI library'
20160527 13:54:09 * xranby cloning elects https://github.com/jovr/imgui
20160527 14:01:40 <xranby> i have spent tons of time debugging stateful GUI and is interesting to see if the amount of state can be reduced
20160527 14:04:59 <xranby> Eclesia: that quote "A sophisticated IMGUI library will in fact retain about as much data as an equivalent RMGUI library" comes from a user who still praise it! http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/a/24552
20160527 14:05:43 <xranby> the same user say "IMGUI is unquestionably a good thing. It gives you a much better model for reasoning about your GUI."
20160527 14:05:48 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
20160527 14:09:16 <Eclesia> some people can't be honest
20160527 14:11:08 <Eclesia> there was something similar in web tenth of years ago, image map. we don't see any.
20160527 14:12:05 * SHC (~quassel@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
20160527 14:13:25 <xranby> Unity3D's GUI ssytem aparently uses this immediate approach
20160527 14:14:12 <Eclesia> I believe they wanted something quickly, that's all, laziness.
20160527 14:14:31 <zubzub> Eclesia: I think because gl rendering is also immediate
20160527 14:14:57 <zubzub> so it makes sense to develop a UI that shares the same core principal
20160527 14:15:12 <Eclesia> GL1 yes, but now, with all the VBO,FBO,UBO,Shaders ... it ain't really immediate
20160527 14:15:42 <zubzub> there's no scene (graph) context
20160527 14:15:46 <zubzub> even with gl4
20160527 14:16:54 <zubzub> immediate mode just cuts away an abstract state representation of what should be rendered
20160527 14:16:55 <Eclesia> still all datas are loaded before.
20160527 14:17:06 <zubzub> yet you still need to know those things
20160527 14:17:27 <zubzub> so you end up having your business tightly coupled with your ui
20160527 14:17:58 <zubzub> (I'm not doing any judgements if that's good or bad)
20160527 14:18:48 <zubzub> I can imagine it having benefits in certain situations
20160527 15:51:48 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20160527 15:58:42 <elect> hey xranby
20160527 16:01:35 * Eclesia (~husky@anon) has left #jogamp
20160527 16:03:20 <elect> Eclesia, you are confusing immediate rendering mode GL/DX with immediate rendering glBegin/glEnd
20160527 16:03:28 <elect> they are two *separate* things
20160527 16:03:47 <elect> xranby, you are my light at the end of the tunnel
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20160527 16:54:33 * elect (~GBarbieri@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
20160527 17:24:17 <rmk0> there is no tunnel, just a kind of long trench
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20160527 22:43:01 * bigpet (uid25664@anon) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
20160528 05:06:14 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160528050614.html