#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20160902 05:05:11 (UTC)
20160902 05:05:11 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160901050511.html
20160902 05:05:11 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160902050511.html
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20160902 07:00:09 <elect> hi
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20160902 11:11:13 <zubzub> xranby: sarcasm?
20160902 11:11:41 <xranby> no.. i quoted a part of the email
20160902 11:11:42 <xranby> it made me happy
20160902 11:12:17 <xranby> ">> 50X performance improvement over template interpreter. "
20160902 11:44:06 * gouessej (5ee4b442@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160902 11:44:10 <gouessej> Hi
20160902 11:45:08 <gouessej> elect: You don't understand that you often take the way that seems to be the easiest for you instead of choosing the best way to have an excellent integration within the existing JogAmp ecosystem
20160902 11:46:06 <gouessej> elect: Imagine that I need to support VR in a JogAmp supported engine. I won't use your stuff because you use JNA instead of GlueGen whereas the VR features could and should be directly inside JOGL
20160902 11:46:56 <gouessej> elect: I'll have to restart everything from scratch... :(
20160902 11:47:33 <gouessej> elect: Moreover, several APIs already use (more or less) the name "jovr"
20160902 11:47:57 <gouessej> elect: supporting VR inside JOGL works around this problem too
20160902 11:49:16 <gouessej> elect: some of your APIs compete with JogAmp APIs
20160902 11:51:23 <gouessej> elect: joglus for example, there is already some support for the Occulus Rift in JOGL
20160902 11:52:12 <gouessej> elect: JGLI whereas there are encoders and decoders in JOGL too
20160902 11:53:05 <gouessej> elect: JGLM as there are some math stuffs in com.jogamp.opengl.math and com.jogamp.opengl.math.geom
20160902 11:54:05 <gouessej> elect: you decided to make your own APIs instead of contributing a lot more to ours
20160902 11:54:17 <gouessej> elect: you have to face the consequences
20160902 11:54:58 <gouessej> elect: If you improved our encoders and our decoders, all JOGL users would benefit of that
20160902 11:55:39 <gouessej> elect: I transfered at least one feature from JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation to JOGL itself, I know what I'm talking about
20160902 11:56:53 <gouessej> elect: When I need a VR binding, I'll prefer using a library based on GlueGen instead of having to use your library + JNA
20160902 11:57:56 <bruce-> why?
20160902 11:58:12 <bruce-> can't they be used next to each other?
20160902 11:59:13 <gouessej> yes they can
20160902 12:00:01 <gouessej> but I don't want to add a debatable source of instabilities and another third party library whereas GlueGen can do something similar
20160902 12:00:47 <bruce-> I think that likely has the same order of instabilities
20160902 12:01:08 <gouessej> No there is a difference between GlueGen alone and GlueGen + JNA
20160902 12:02:51 <gouessej> Lots of his development could have been done in JogAmp itself, maybe in new projects but in JogAmp
20160902 12:03:14 <gouessej> What he does leads to effort duplication
20160902 12:04:07 <gouessej> There is already a bug report about a pure Java JPEG decoder, we should concentrate our efforts to work together when it's possible instead of doing very similar things in different APIs
20160902 12:05:03 <bruce-> this is becoming hard to follow for me :)
20160902 12:05:44 <gouessej> As far as I know, his library to load 3D models still support a lot fewer formats than assimp, fewer than JoglUtils and fewer than JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation
20160902 12:05:51 <gouessej> "supports"
20160902 12:06:03 <gouessej> https://github.com/java-graphics-society/assimp
20160902 12:06:10 <gouessej> only MD2
20160902 12:07:04 <bruce-> yeah sorry, I thought we were discussing VR support
20160902 12:07:40 <gouessej> sorry. Bye
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20160902 12:37:25 <elect> the reason is pretty simple
20160902 12:37:53 <elect> jogamp support for math/texture is not enough
20160902 12:38:00 <elect> it's really really basic
20160902 12:38:15 <elect> I would be more than happy if I could contribute
20160902 12:38:36 <elect> about jna
20160902 12:38:56 <elect> if I'd have used gluegen, I should have had invested a lot of time to understand how it works
20160902 12:38:58 <elect> if it works
20160902 12:39:02 <elect> and how to implement
20160902 12:39:15 <elect> I had deadlines for it
20160902 12:39:30 <elect> that I couldnt respect if I went down the gluegen way
20160902 12:39:39 <elect> but let me underline once again
20160902 12:39:47 <elect> this does not mean I'll stick with jna
20160902 12:40:00 <elect> if you want to contribute and use gluegen
20160902 12:40:05 <elect> I'll be happy to work together
20160902 12:40:17 <elect> but you should do the gluegen part
20160902 12:40:27 <elect> because I have no resources to do it by myself
20160902 12:40:49 <zubzub> we should drop gluegen and jna and use something else but similar
20160902 12:40:52 <zubzub> I know just the thing :p
20160902 12:41:16 <elect> I agree about jovr, but that doesnt issue persist anymore, the jovr organization has been deleted
20160902 12:41:45 <elect> jgli has support for dds and ktx that jogamp doesnt have
20160902 12:41:51 <elect> I tried to integrate it
20160902 12:41:58 <elect> I still have a repo to prove that
20160902 12:42:18 <elect> but there are so many things
20160902 12:42:22 <elect> to make it work
20160902 12:42:25 <elect> you can't image
20160902 12:42:43 <elect> but I tried
20160902 12:42:58 <elect> and again, if you are willing, we can also work together about this
20160902 12:43:15 <elect> I am not making my own tools
20160902 12:43:25 <elect> I see the C/C++ world and I see the java one
20160902 12:43:31 <elect> they have excellent tools, we dont
20160902 12:43:43 <elect> therefore I port those tools on java
20160902 12:43:46 <elect> simple as that
20160902 12:44:58 <elect> however the problem now lies on top
20160902 12:45:10 <elect> even if we could implement that in jogamp, we couldnt
20160902 12:46:46 <elect> btw assimp is in standby now coz I have to work on glm, gli and openvr
20160902 12:48:15 <elect> I consider it still in beta
20160902 12:48:27 <elect> all other tools are preatty stable and usable
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20160902 14:58:18 <bruce-> I'd rather see a collection of libraries that work together in some way than a monolithic framework
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20160902 15:41:50 <elect> then join me ^^
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20160902 22:52:24 <gouessej> elect: the high level texture API is a bit basic but you didn't really contribute to improve it, you preferred spending your time in developing a separate API as usual
20160902 22:53:10 <gouessej> elect: the build-in decoders and the encoders are quite good
20160902 22:54:36 <gouessej> elect: you use the deadlines as a pretext to make your own stuff instead of contributing to JogAmp. Of course, I'd help you if you focused on using GlueGen instead of other JNI or JNA generators
20160902 22:55:14 <gouessej> elect: there is still a problem with jovr
20160902 22:55:34 <gouessej> elect: you're plain wrong: https://github.com/jherico/jovr
20160902 22:56:12 <gouessej> elect: you could have implemented dds and ktx support in JOGL instead of using JGLI
20160902 22:57:06 <gouessej> elect: If you don't plan to work on jassimp, I advise you to close this project once for all
20160902 22:58:07 <gouessej> elect: Don't worry about importers and exporters, I can write reliable importers and exporters, this is already what I do
20160902 22:59:15 <gouessej> elect: Java has an excellent tooling and sometimes a pure port is preferred instead of a binding
20160902 23:00:02 <gouessej> bruce-: When Java 1.9 is out, we'll have better tools to communicate with native APIs but in the meantime, we have GlueGen :)
20160902 23:02:53 <gouessej> elect: Are you sure that you have some STL and PLY importers better than ours in JogAmp's Ardor3D Continuation? I don't think so
20160902 23:04:10 <gouessej> bruce-: I'm not against creating a separate math library that we could use in many JogAmp projects and JOGL isn't monolithic, you can use atomic JARs
20160902 23:04:29 <gouessej> Good night
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20160903 05:05:11 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160903050511.html