#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20141126 05:06:30 (UTC)
20141126 05:06:30 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141125050630.html
20141126 05:06:30 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141126050630.html
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20141126 07:37:55 <eclesia> good morning
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20141126 11:40:04 <gouessej> Hi
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20141126 11:45:15 <rmk0> ... lo
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20141126 20:00:39 <hharrison> rmk0: you rang?
20141126 20:00:54 <rmk0> lo!
20141126 20:01:01 <rmk0> long time no see... ish
20141126 20:01:17 <rmk0> i was hoping to nag you about the blender export plugin you mentioned quite a few weeks back
20141126 20:02:19 <rmk0> not sure if it's already in a public place and that i don't know where to look...
20141126 20:03:06 <hharrison> Lemme get that someplace public, gimme 5
20141126 20:03:10 <rmk0> thanks
20141126 20:03:26 <rmk0> curious to see how you've worked around all the endless version compatibility problems
20141126 20:03:44 <rmk0> the blender internal data structures seem to change every five minutes, and that seems to end up reflected in the python "api"
20141126 20:06:35 <hharrison> Python blender plugin that outputs our collada-like jaamsim mesh format:
20141126 20:06:36 <hharrison> http://jaamsim.com/release/JaamMeshExporter.py
20141126 20:07:06 * rmk0 eyes it
20141126 20:07:10 <hharrison> This is mostly my coworker's baby, so I'll have to direct questions his way
20141126 20:07:44 <hharrison> I think this is the current tool, I honestly haven't looked at it since it was 'good enough'
20141126 20:09:21 <hharrison> And it may very well be broken, I haven't actually used it for awhile, or tried with newer blenders
20141126 20:09:35 * rmk0 tries running it
20141126 20:10:03 <hharrison> Hopefully I've added enough caveats ;-)
20141126 20:10:35 <rmk0> backtrace \o/
20141126 20:11:18 <rmk0> sadness
20141126 20:11:37 <hharrison> indeed, blender is good at producing those feelings
20141126 20:12:30 <rmk0> think i may be back to my original plan
20141126 20:12:48 <rmk0> write a gui tool to add bones to a mesh and animate it
20141126 20:13:20 <rmk0> this was blender 2.72, by the way
20141126 20:13:35 <rmk0> i'd give you the backtrace but the error message vanishes as soon as i move the cursor.. not sure how to capture it
20141126 20:13:57 <rmk0> hm, actually...
20141126 20:16:09 <rmk0> ok, i've no idea what caused it
20141126 20:16:24 <rmk0> http://waste.io7m.com/2014/11/26/error.txt
20141126 20:16:44 <rmk0> i thought it was because there was an "Empty" in the scene and it didn't like it, but i created a new scene, created an Empty, and exported without issue
20141126 20:18:32 <rmk0> http://waste.io7m.com/2014/11/26/plane.blend
20141126 20:18:50 <rmk0> that's the blend that caused it, if he happens to have a burning desire to suffer through some python debugging
20141126 20:19:14 <hharrison> He's out for the week, but I'll grab that blend and leave a present for him
20141126 20:19:36 <rmk0> hehe
20141126 20:19:41 <rmk0> i'm sure he'll thank you
20141126 20:20:03 <rmk0> suppose it's good to get this stuff fixed... you'll no doubt upgrade blender sooner or later
20141126 20:20:06 <hharrison> I you do end up working on such a tool, we'd be interested in the format you choose, we've already done jsm (which is stripped down collada)
20141126 20:20:23 <hharrison> and jsb which is a binary version for faster loading
20141126 20:20:35 <hharrison> But really I imagine we want a lot of the same things here
20141126 20:20:39 <rmk0> it'd be something custom as there's basically nothing out there
20141126 20:20:45 <rmk0> yeah... i like the look of what i've seen of jsm
20141126 20:21:05 <hharrison> If you want to start from that, we can be flexible to changes needed
20141126 20:21:30 <hharrison> It would be great to have a second user of this stuff
20141126 20:21:53 <rmk0> basically, my renderer consumes meshes with vertices that have positions, UVs, normals, and 4D tangents (the w component contains 1.0 if the original basis was right handed, and -1.0 if it was left handed)
20141126 20:21:59 <hharrison> The material mapping stuff is still pretty collada like, whish pretty dire
20141126 20:22:06 <rmk0> and... that's it, i don't store any material details or anything like that
20141126 20:22:45 <rmk0> i'd obviously need to add bones into the picture
20141126 20:23:06 <hharrison> I'll drag Matt in here on Monday and hopefully we can find some common ground
20141126 20:23:12 <rmk0> hm, right!
20141126 20:23:21 <hharrison> Or are you gone for Turkey day?
20141126 20:23:27 <rmk0> nope
20141126 20:23:32 <rmk0> am in the UK, no turkeys here
20141126 20:24:12 <rmk0> ... am i even thinking of the right holiday?
20141126 20:24:51 <hharrison> I think you've got it right
20141126 20:25:24 <rmk0> really, just getting bones and actions out of blender would be enough
20141126 20:25:37 <rmk0> it's currently impossible with all but the jsm and fxb formats
20141126 20:25:47 <rmk0> pretty bad state of affairs
20141126 20:26:28 <rmk0> er, fbx, rather
20141126 20:27:04 <hharrison> Yeah, we hoped that jsm would be rather transitory for us until something better came along....not much has yet
20141126 20:27:35 <rmk0> fbx is ... unbelievable
20141126 20:27:45 <rmk0> like "i'm not sure how any human could have designed this" unbelievable
20141126 20:28:09 <rmk0> was looking at some of the ASCII examples, and couldn't even begin to think how to smash it into a state that would actually be acceptable as input to anything
20141126 20:30:14 <rmk0> assume it's somewhat deliberate... autodesk obviously have a vested interest in tying people to the format
20141126 20:46:07 <rmk0> curious if blender stores more information per-bone than just a name and a matrix
20141126 20:46:20 <rmk0> i'd personally rather have a position and an orientation as a quaternion
20141126 20:46:36 * rmk0 eyes python
20141126 20:54:42 <rmk0> yes, it does
20141126 20:55:17 <rmk0> the jsm plugin multiplies the matrix_local field of each bone by the armature's matrix_world
20141126 20:55:45 <rmk0> but there are rotation_euler and rotation_quaternion fields too
20141126 20:55:48 <rmk0> so that's doable
20141126 20:56:26 <hharrison> Yeah, we ended up flattening the bone space a little bit rather than resolving all the bones
20141126 20:56:34 <hharrison> Can't remember why
20141126 21:06:59 <rmk0> actually, i'm wrong
20141126 21:07:11 <rmk0> the quaternion i was looking at was the transform for the whole armature
20141126 21:07:24 <rmk0> seems like for bones, they really only store a local matrix and head/tail positions
20141126 21:07:29 <rmk0> presumably for the UI to actually draw the bones
20141126 21:07:45 <rmk0> could derive quaternions based on the head and tail, but that's not something i'd want to do in python
20141126 21:07:56 <rmk0> not that there's much that i would
20141126 21:08:09 <rmk0> getting the head and tail positions out would be handy
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20141127 05:06:30 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141127050630.html