#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20160520 05:06:23 (UTC)


20160520 05:06:23 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160519050623.html
20160520 05:06:23 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160520050623.html
20160520 06:58:51 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) has joined #jogamp
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20160520 07:12:36 <elect> hey
20160520 07:35:06 * Eclesia (~husky@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160520 07:35:23 <Eclesia> hi
20160520 08:50:44 <rmk0> .o.
20160520 09:10:21 <elect> °o°
20160520 09:11:06 <rmk0> /(°o°)\
20160520 09:11:28 <rmk0> http://www.paintingmania.com/arts/edvard-munch/large/scream-16_6155.jpg
20160520 10:32:38 <elect> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/oracle-v-google-draws-to-a-close-jury-sent-home-until-next-week/
20160520 12:00:57 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
20160520 12:10:17 <dwbrite> Good morning
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20160520 12:15:21 <dwbrite> I was a bit busy when you were having this conversation yesterday, but Rust is my go-to as well.
20160520 12:15:30 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) Quit (Client Quit)
20160520 12:17:41 <zubzub> I heard a lot of people talking about rust
20160520 12:18:09 <zubzub> but it looks a bit... exotic
20160520 12:21:26 <zubzub> but I do like it
20160520 12:21:31 <zubzub> just as go
20160520 12:21:32 <zubzub> and kotlin
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20160520 12:27:13 <elect> I finally came to a conclusion
20160520 12:27:53 <elect> using opengl for a plain gui is totally oversized
20160520 12:28:17 <zubzub> #sherlockindahouse :p
20160520 12:28:31 <elect> ^^
20160520 12:28:34 <rmk0> rust is designed by people who are actually paying attention to programming language and type system research, and actually have an interest in facilitating writing code that's correct
20160520 12:28:39 <rmk0> unlike the c/c++/go people
20160520 12:30:15 <rmk0> is one of the very very few sane options if you have code that has soft realtime constraints
20160520 12:31:12 <zubzub> what about kotlin?
20160520 12:31:35 <rmk0> well i was assuming that anything that would keep you away from java would also keep you away from the jvm
20160520 12:31:57 <rmk0> so... kotlin would be out
20160520 12:32:09 <zubzub> well if I have my own bytecode aot compiler, I don't need the jvm anymore :p
20160520 12:32:16 <rmk0> right
20160520 12:33:11 <rmk0> i'm currently at about 20k lines of kotlin here, as i'm writing something that would be painful to write without algebraic types/variant types/case classes, whatever the hell you want to call them
20160520 12:33:49 <rmk0> it's not great. it's not conspicuously bad. extension methods are a hugely dangerous misfeature
20160520 12:34:24 <rmk0> is basically a new syntax for java, plus somewhat more sane defaults (public by default, final by default) and support for algebraic types/variant types/case classes
20160520 12:34:27 <elect> do you know, guys, some light gui that may be perfect for my case?
20160520 12:34:36 <elect> I'd need something that I can output to a texture
20160520 12:34:40 <elect> and give it to opengl
20160520 12:34:56 <elect> does something like that exist in java?
20160520 12:35:47 <zubzub> nifty gui?
20160520 12:35:53 <zubzub> javafx? :p
20160520 12:36:01 <elect> nifty uses opengl
20160520 12:36:33 <zubzub> theoretically you can use any drawing/rendering library
20160520 12:36:42 <elect> I know
20160520 12:36:42 <zubzub> and output it to a buffer
20160520 12:36:53 <elect> but I need something to be "outputable"
20160520 12:36:56 <zubzub> but you also specified it to be written in Java
20160520 12:37:04 <zubzub> so yeah. problem right there
20160520 12:37:16 <elect> 100% java is really attracting
20160520 12:37:20 <elect> shit
20160520 12:37:27 <elect> you illuded me
20160520 12:37:28 <zubzub> afaik there exist no good simple shape/(g)ui for java
20160520 12:37:51 <elect> is it possible?
20160520 12:38:00 <elect> I mean, am I the first one who thought about that?
20160520 12:38:35 <zubzub> probably not
20160520 12:38:43 <zubzub> I think nobody really bothered to make such a thing
20160520 12:38:50 <zubzub> or they didn't know how
20160520 12:39:48 <rmk0> elect: is java2d out of the question? i don't know what your constraints are
20160520 12:40:18 <elect> can I output it?
20160520 12:40:21 <rmk0> obviously fairly easy to draw 2D shapes into an image and then upload that image into a texture each frame
20160520 12:43:36 <rmk0> i'm not convinced that doing a gui in opengl is overkill, mainly for the reason that sooner or later you're going to want to put something you rendered with opengl (an image, maybe a model) into the UI
20160520 12:43:52 <rmk0> and at that point, if you have a purely cpu-rendered gui, you're going to have to read back from the gpu and harm performance
20160520 12:44:05 <elect> I can say with relatively security is not my case so far
20160520 12:45:10 <elect> however, even in that case, I am pretty sure rendering everything you can on CPU, send the texture and update it on the GPU with a model/image is still the best way
20160520 12:45:17 <rmk0> you may also want some sort of translucent elements, and that's not exactly cheap on the cpu
20160520 12:45:47 <elect> I'll write the correspondent alpha and the gl blending will do the rest
20160520 12:45:48 <rmk0> elect: it's definitely the easiest approach
20160520 12:45:53 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
20160520 12:46:03 <elect> but can I output it?
20160520 12:46:10 <elect> to a buffer or something
20160520 12:46:37 <elect> it is the right approach for my case also because I can even do selection on cpu
20160520 12:46:51 <elect> through code-picking
20160520 12:46:58 <elect> what can I ask more?
20160520 12:47:08 <elect> no more gpu-cpu round trips
20160520 12:47:28 <elect> now, this is the moment when you guys tell me, yes, you can output it
20160520 12:47:34 <rmk0> i already said you can!
20160520 12:47:47 <elect> ah ok
20160520 12:47:51 <rmk0> java2d draws to images, is up to you what you do with those images
20160520 12:48:01 <elect> bufferedImages?
20160520 12:48:10 <rmk0> something like that
20160520 12:48:15 <elect> excellent
20160520 12:48:22 <elect> thanks
20160520 12:48:49 <rmk0> i prefer not to do picking on the gpu either
20160520 12:48:54 <rmk0> seems pointless
20160520 12:49:24 <rmk0> i could have an efficient quadtree on the cpu to get exact results, or i could render a load of pixels on the gpu and then incur a cpu/gpu sync reading them back because "..."
20160520 12:49:40 <rmk0> waste of time
20160520 12:51:54 * elect hugs rmk0
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20160520 16:04:07 <guillaum1> elect: if interested I wrote this: https://github.com/glegris/nuklear4j
20160520 16:04:37 <guillaum1> but there is a native part, not 100% java
20160520 16:06:04 <elect> cpu with optional gpu?
20160520 16:08:35 <guillaum1> elect: The rendering is done with Graphics2D yet (you can put the BufferedImage into a texture) but I've planned to add OpenGL rendering in a near future too.
20160520 16:09:55 <elect> have you done some profiling?
20160520 16:10:27 <guillaum1> elect: nope
20160520 16:10:45 <elect> why did you that port? Motivations?
20160520 16:12:43 <guillaum1> elect: Nuklear is headless. I need to render GUI on OS without AWT/Swing/SWT or even SDL. So the native interface must be very simple to port to weird low-level graphics API
20160520 16:13:41 <guillaum1> Writing a JOGL backend for Nuklear needs a couple of hours only
20160520 16:13:45 <elect> if the rendering is done with G2D, why didn't you try to do a pure java implementation?
20160520 16:15:23 <elect> guillaum1,
20160520 16:15:42 <guillaum1> elect: I have a pure Java implementation (on our private SVN server) for the cases described above but it's not open-source :-)
20160520 16:15:53 <elect> why so mean
20160520 16:15:59 <elect> share, we are all friends
20160520 16:16:01 <elect> ^^
20160520 16:17:29 <elect> guillaum1, may you take in consideration the idea to open it?
20160520 16:19:37 <guillaum1> elect: sorry I can't yet. I'm not the only developer. I'll try but not before a few months anyways
20160520 16:23:49 <elect> what a pity
20160520 16:23:51 <guillaum1> elect: note that the pure Java code is a kind of hacky-big-blob because some C to Java conversion tools were used.
20160520 16:23:52 <elect> anyway
20160520 16:24:19 <elect> we could try to make it less spaghetti together
20160520 16:24:43 <elect> and any profiling on the pure java?
20160520 16:25:32 <guillaum1> elect: not yet
20160520 16:27:03 * xranby (~xranby@anon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20160520 16:28:33 <guillaum1> elect: I did the same thing for thinlet too: http://thinlet.sourceforge.net/demo.html . It's pure Java but it's for desktop style GUI
20160520 16:29:26 <elect> do you have some screenshots? I don't have any plugin
20160520 16:31:48 <elect> of course the java plugin is not supported by firefox x64
20160520 16:31:51 <elect> and guess what I use
20160520 16:31:53 <elect> ^^
20160520 16:32:26 <elect> but hey
20160520 16:32:29 <elect> I have also chrome
20160520 16:32:31 <elect> Chrome no longer supports NPAPI (technology required for Java applets)
20160520 16:32:37 <elect> >.>
20160520 16:32:44 <elect> the world is against me
20160520 16:33:33 <guillaum1> elect: same here. I'm searching on my drives
20160520 16:35:54 <guillaum1> elect: https://framapic.org/SfrMMsbF6DPa/rf1xmEtzGh0F.png
20160520 16:37:53 <elect> guillaum1, may you take in consideration the idea to work on a pure nuklear from scratch?
20160520 16:39:32 <elect> clean & nice
20160520 16:39:36 <elect> me & you
20160520 16:40:28 <elect> I have to go
20160520 16:40:32 <elect> think about
20160520 16:40:34 <elect> ciao
20160520 16:43:03 <guillaum1> elect: yeah it's on my TODO list but not sure to have enough time. I'll think about it. bye
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20160520 20:01:27 * Eclesia *pom pom pom*
20160520 20:05:15 <rmk0> *CRASH*
20160520 20:17:09 * Eclesia searching for ideas on how to edit animations in a WYSIWYG editor
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20160521 05:06:23 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160521050623.html