#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20141127 05:06:30 (UTC)
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20141127 05:06:30 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141127050630.html
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20141127 07:33:01 <eclesia> good ... ho whatever ...
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20141127 14:52:58 <zubzub> https://gist.github.com/Zubnix/35962eb6bbb4b4dcdd01
20141127 14:53:41 <zubzub> would that be something interesting if an annotation processor would extract the C source and generate a javah header & similar .c file?
20141127 14:54:20 <zubzub> I was hacking on the javac 8 plugin system but it seems to be limited to handling the AST
20141127 14:54:48 <zubzub> so embedding the C code in a /*-{ stuff }-*/ comment block was becoming a PITA
20141127 14:55:03 <zubzub> so instead of thinking of settling on annotations
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20141127 19:17:48 <Eclesia> hi
20141127 19:18:07 <rmk0> lo
20141127 19:19:07 <Eclesia> rmk0: o/
20141127 19:20:11 <Eclesia> question : in blender, what are the elements you use. colors, textures, shapekeys, animations, what else ?
20141127 19:20:32 <rmk0> i only use two of those...
20141127 19:20:34 <Eclesia> armature too of course
20141127 19:20:44 <rmk0> i create meshes, UV map them, add armatures, make animations
20141127 19:20:57 <rmk0> basically ignore the material system entirely
20141127 19:21:46 <Eclesia> :) nice, then I just have to finish animation import ^^
20141127 19:22:16 <rmk0> hm...
20141127 19:22:38 <rmk0> HM...
20141127 19:22:45 * Eclesia will have one of the few blender decoders which exist hahaha
20141127 19:22:54 <rmk0> \o/
20141127 19:23:30 <rmk0> i'll definitely try them out
20141127 19:23:38 <rmk0> would rather rip data out of blender files from java than python
20141127 19:23:44 <rmk0> at least i can test and debug the former
20141127 19:24:00 <Eclesia> what ?
20141127 19:24:45 <rmk0> there's currently no way to get animation data out of blender unless you use the FBX format (BLECH!) or write a python plugin (BLECH!)
20141127 19:24:57 <rmk0> at least until your blender decoder is done
20141127 19:25:33 <Eclesia> :)
20141127 19:27:11 <Eclesia> you can already use it to explore everything in the blender file. everything is decoded for any blender version. what I'm working on is mapping the content to my engine mesh model
20141127 19:27:37 <rmk0> is this stuff in maven somewhere?
20141127 19:27:49 <Eclesia> it's not deployed, you have to build it
20141127 19:27:56 <rmk0> that's fine
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20141127 19:34:32 * Eclesia is back
20141127 19:34:39 <Eclesia> sorry disconected :/
20141127 19:34:49 <Eclesia> you said something ?
20141127 19:34:50 <rmk0> you didn't miss much
20141127 19:35:20 <Eclesia> do you want to give it a try ?
20141127 19:35:21 <rmk0> i'm not sure why it didn't occur to me before that you were working on this stuff
20141127 19:35:39 <rmk0> i don't think i'll get round to it today... beating some old code into shape, but i definitely want to try it
20141127 19:35:49 <rmk0> it'll save me a lot of work to be able to extract animation data
20141127 19:36:34 <rmk0> aren't the blender people obsessed with forward/backward/left/right/up/down compatibility?
20141127 19:36:56 <Eclesia> I'll add a small demo to show how to explore a blender file
20141127 19:38:51 <rmk0> wondering how likely it is that the blender people will make some changes and break your code in the future
20141127 19:39:08 <rmk0> seem to remember they have some sort of complicated structures in place to stop it happening
20141127 19:39:36 <Eclesia> rmk0: maybe, but I have to admit the file model they use is nice. it evolves well. It's a bit like an XML, you can't really 'break' the base model.
20141127 19:40:05 <Eclesia> you add fields, new nodes etc... but you don't have to change how the parser works
20141127 19:40:10 <rmk0> the format stays the same but the data might not be where you expect?
20141127 19:40:16 <Eclesia> yes
20141127 19:40:22 <rmk0> ick
20141127 19:40:26 <Eclesia> so only the 'adaptor' can change
20141127 19:41:41 <Eclesia> rmk0: the file contains somekind of xsd description, so even if they change the model, well you can always update the adaptor to match
20141127 19:42:10 <Eclesia> I work on a 2.72 adaptor and it works well even for blender 2.5
20141127 19:42:28 <Eclesia> the model may change, but not that much
20141127 19:42:28 <rmk0> it's more the case that i prefer to know something's incompatible at the earliest opportunity
20141127 19:42:36 <rmk0> don't know if it allows for that
20141127 19:42:59 <Eclesia> the version of the file is given in the header
20141127 19:43:15 <rmk0> but do their version numbers mean anything?
20141127 19:43:15 <Eclesia> you can just raise an error if you don't handle this version
20141127 19:43:34 <rmk0> like... major number increases on backwards-incompatible changes or something
20141127 19:43:53 <Eclesia> it's the same number as the blender editor
20141127 19:44:08 <rmk0> i'll take that as a no!
20141127 19:44:15 <Eclesia> hehe
20141127 19:44:43 <rmk0> if it works for the next five years or so, that's fine
20141127 19:46:26 <Eclesia> blender files are not the worst out there... valve source engine files are awfull
20141127 19:46:34 <rmk0> i can believe that
20141127 19:46:47 <rmk0> everything i've seen of the source engine suggests it's completely awful
20141127 19:46:56 <rmk0> i read a bit of their leaked source once... it was awful
20141127 19:46:57 <Eclesia> splitted in tenth of files with cross references etc... a real pain
20141127 19:48:07 <Eclesia> autocad dwg is the worse of worse ^^
20141127 19:48:19 <rmk0> is it anything like their fxb format?
20141127 19:48:33 <rmk0> .. fbx
20141127 19:48:35 <Eclesia> I didn't make fbx yet, I can't say
20141127 19:48:42 <rmk0> it looks extremely nasty
20141127 19:49:09 <Eclesia> dwg is not documented, obfuscated and compressed
20141127 19:49:32 <rmk0> i think you could be forgiven for thinking that fbx is too
20141127 19:49:37 <Eclesia> took me a month (35h a week) to decode it
20141127 19:49:43 <rmk0> urgh!
20141127 19:49:53 <Eclesia> plenty of versions to ...
20141127 19:50:05 <Eclesia> 2003,2005,2007,2010,2013 :/
20141127 19:50:32 <Eclesia> changing compression and obfuscation in the middle of course
20141127 19:50:39 <Eclesia> it would be too easy otherwise
20141127 19:51:13 <Eclesia> BUT that's for my work ... not for my project :(
20141127 19:54:32 <Eclesia> ping ?
20141127 19:54:53 <rmk0> freenode seems fragile
20141127 19:55:29 <Eclesia> hm
20141127 20:30:49 <Eclesia> rmk0: finished the demo :) http://pastebin.com/nDt3DAiz I can't make it any easier
20141127 20:33:45 <rmk0> thanks!
20141127 20:34:29 <Eclesia> and what it prints for a blender file : http://jsorel.developpez.com/temp/blenderAsText.txt
20141127 20:35:04 <Eclesia> first half is the blender SDNA (the model description) the second are the blocks
20141127 20:35:54 <Eclesia> the blend file contains all the interface state, where are frames, splits etc... so 2/3 of the file is useless for us.
20141127 20:35:57 <rmk0> yep
20141127 20:36:44 <rmk0> you can tell from the way that if you touch any part of the interface at all, blender considers the file to be unsaved... they're obviously storing absolutely everything
20141127 20:37:27 <Eclesia> yop, default values, brush parameters and so on
20141127 20:37:44 <Eclesia> even the scroll position
20141127 20:39:29 <Eclesia> the model isn't that hard to understand when you get used to it
20141127 20:40:10 <Eclesia> scene > list of base > mesh > loops/edges + material + shapekeys + motions
20141127 20:44:27 * Eclesia hope rmk0 will come contribute to the project ^^
20141127 20:46:36 <rmk0> i will no doubt find things to improve
20141127 20:46:41 <rmk0> i tend to pick holes in things /o\
20141127 20:47:05 <Eclesia> changing topic : have you made customizable models ? I mean like a player model in an MMO. changing weapons, armors ...
20141127 20:47:18 <Eclesia> lucky for me, there are plenty of holes in the project :D
20141127 20:47:21 <rmk0> i've not yet, but i will be doing that
20141127 20:47:44 <rmk0> the intention is to only have a few meshes representing all the characters in the game... just swap the skin and accessories
20141127 20:49:04 <Eclesia> yes but my question is more on 'how' to attach them. is using a bone the best approach . for example a bone in the middle of the hand to attach a sword
20141127 20:49:17 <rmk0> yeah, think that's the conventional way
20141127 20:49:30 <rmk0> i'd do it that way!
20141127 20:50:03 <Eclesia> you heard of any other solutions ?
20141127 20:50:18 <rmk0> not that i can remember
20141127 20:52:32 <Eclesia> Keyshape import finished. only animations left :)
20141127 21:04:39 <Eclesia> rmk0: fbx doesn't look to be very complex : http://code.blender.org/index.php/2013/08/fbx-binary-file-format-specification/
20141127 21:06:28 <rmk0> the structure isn't, but trying to make sense of the contents is
20141127 21:07:23 <Eclesia> I'll give it a try ^^
20141127 21:11:11 <rmk0> hharrison might be interested in your work as well
20141127 21:11:23 <rmk0> not sure if you saw our conversation about jaamsim's jsm format
20141127 21:11:29 <hharrison> he is :-)
20141127 21:11:37 <rmk0> well, that answers that
20141127 21:12:12 <hharrison> Most of the engineering content we need is most easily gettable in FBX
20141127 21:12:39 <hharrison> for now we have to do a sinful dance with Max3d and the opencollada plugin
20141127 21:13:24 <hharrison> And if the moon is just right and the correct animals have been offered, a well formed file comes out
20141127 21:13:29 <Eclesia> first time I hear about this jaasim's format
20141127 21:13:35 <Eclesia> so much 3d formats ...
20141127 21:13:58 <hharrison> jsm is what we built for ourselves as a dead-simple mesh format
20141127 21:14:34 <Eclesia> this ? https://github.com/AusencoSimulation/JaamSim
20141127 21:15:03 <hharrison> That's the whole project, you can load collada and jsm assets
20141127 21:15:18 <hharrison> jsm is kind of a flag for 'don't do a lot of collada bullshit'
20141127 21:18:25 <Eclesia> ok so ... how much am I payed to do fbx ? :D
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20141127 21:20:37 <Eclesia> nope ? no candys ?
20141127 21:21:34 <Eclesia> ^^ joking, I will do this format anyway. It's just a matter of 'when'
20141127 21:22:00 <rmk0> as i said, the real difficulty isn't in parsing the format... the syntax is simple
20141127 21:22:03 <hharrison> Trust me, if I had the money I would gladly pay someone else for fbx
20141127 21:22:08 <rmk0> but there are no documented semantics at all
20141127 21:22:36 <rmk0> i've absolutely no idea how things inside blender are mapped to the gibberish that results from exporting to fbx (ascii)
20141127 21:23:49 <rmk0> that stuff matters most of all when you're trying to convert data to a format that isn't insane
20141127 21:41:47 <Eclesia> rmk0: Towel ... hm sorry Parasol is written in java ?
20141127 21:44:59 <rmk0> hehe
20141127 21:45:01 <rmk0> yeah, is
20141127 21:46:48 <Eclesia> k
20141127 21:46:55 <Eclesia> good night +++
20141127 21:47:03 <rmk0> byeee!
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20141128 05:06:30 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20141128050630.html