JogAmp IRC Chat Logs

#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20150825 05:05:31 (UTC)

20150825 05:05:31 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20150824050531.html
20150825 05:05:31 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20150825050531.html
20150825 06:01:06 * a11mad11 (c0e2cd65@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20150825 06:27:36 <elect> hi
20150825 06:43:46 * badshah400 (~badshah40@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150825 07:10:55 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150825 07:11:22 <monsieur_max> hello
20150825 07:18:57 * eclesia (~husky@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150825 07:19:12 <eclesia> good morning
20150825 08:25:39 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150825 12:17:22 * badshah400 (~badshah40@anon) Quit (Quit: badshah400)
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20150825 12:29:12 * szynek (~szynek@anon) Quit (Client Quit)
20150825 13:31:06 <xranby> good morning
20150825 13:36:26 <elect> 15:31
20150825 13:36:58 <elect> I thought sweden was on our same time zone :D
20150825 13:37:56 * xranby (~xranby@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150825 13:45:13 <elect> he didnt like my joke :s
20150825 14:00:31 <sgothel> @elect: sometimes you seem to behave like a troll :-/
20150825 14:00:46 <eclesia> just sometimes ?
20150825 14:02:19 <sgothel> @elect: your joke assumed your way of living is the standard .. surely it is not - so, poor joke
20150825 14:09:24 <zubzub> yeah elect
20150825 14:09:32 <zubzub> everybody knows my way of living is the standard
20150825 14:09:42 <zubzub> so I say to you
20150825 14:09:45 <zubzub> good morning
20150825 14:10:03 <zubzub> I mean afternoon as it is 16:09
20150825 14:10:11 <sgothel> good morning :)
20150825 14:10:55 <sgothel> There is a morning 24/7 - Black September continues ..
20150825 14:15:48 <sgothel> I guess the wiki page for the latter must receive some additions .. referencing Black Monday, ha .. that has yesterday already in .. but only naming the chinese market .. funny
20150825 14:18:59 * eclesia wants nice font rendering :'(
20150825 14:19:58 <sgothel> then join our graph [font] rendering
20150825 14:20:50 <eclesia> sure if I can put a tiny small condition ^^
20150825 14:25:06 <elect> troll is something else
20150825 14:25:29 <elect> I just joke by stimulating
20150825 14:26:31 <sgothel> don't beat a dead horse
20150825 14:32:30 <eclesia> yeah don't spoil the meat
20150825 14:35:20 <eclesia> more seriously : opengl can't handle more then 3D images ?
20150825 14:35:33 <eclesia> I mean 4,5,N dimensions
20150825 14:37:45 <sgothel> hmm .. just noticed the cube texture (3d)
20150825 14:37:59 <sgothel> hence .. you may need your own sampler array thingy
20150825 14:38:30 <sgothel> or modulo something ..
20150825 14:38:44 <sgothel> (on x/y axis)
20150825 14:38:48 <eclesia> hm. so should use 1D images and calculate the position myself
20150825 14:39:37 <sgothel> maybe 1D is n/a on ES profiles .. better double check
20150825 14:43:19 <monsieur_max> trying to build avian for win64, no luck so far ...
20150825 14:44:53 <elect> do you think xranby got irritated?
20150825 14:45:54 <zubzub> no
20150825 14:49:16 <elect> anyway, I'll restrict my jokes to frenches and dutches for safety
20150825 14:50:10 <zubzub> I'm not dutch :(
20150825 14:50:21 <elect> you are in by default
20150825 14:50:28 <zubzub> \o/
20150825 14:54:02 * monsieur_max pours some ketchup on his pizza in front of elect while maintaining manly eye-contact
20150825 14:56:15 * elect communicates monsieur_max he will breed (donner naissance à) with pain
20150825 14:56:29 <monsieur_max> bread with pain
20150825 14:56:59 <elect> at least pain is correct
20150825 15:09:56 * elect (~elect@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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20150825 15:21:22 * gouessej (5ee4b442@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150825 15:22:17 <gouessej> Hi
20150825 15:22:31 <sgothel> ho
20150825 15:23:28 <gouessej> eclesia: You can have a look at Harfbuzz, Anti-Grain Geometry and FreeType. I thought that you were planning to use another library
20150825 15:24:14 <gouessej> sgothel: What does the scenegraph API compared to the existing APIs I mentioned above? I try to understand how others solved similar concerns$
20150825 15:24:42 <sgothel> hu?
20150825 15:25:38 <eclesia> gouessej: "I thought that you were planning to use another library" : n-e-v-e-r , only jni libs like jogamp have a special authorization
20150825 15:26:15 <gouessej> eclesia: but you mentioned a tiny library several weeks ago, I have forgotten its name
20150825 15:26:30 <eclesia> ha, stb_truetype
20150825 15:26:36 <eclesia> it's public domain, but in C
20150825 15:26:59 <gouessej> eclesia: What's wrong with it except this "detail"?
20150825 15:27:17 <sgothel> here we go again :-/
20150825 15:27:37 <eclesia> sgothel: I won't answer 'again' ^^
20150825 15:28:42 <gouessej> ok sorry
20150825 15:28:49 <sgothel> this is not really consequent of you then, i.e. you use alot of our licensed code (which is fine for us) .. and surely it is not 'just' jni-lib-code :-]
20150825 15:29:23 <sgothel> then the JVM itself .. and so on and so forth ..
20150825 15:29:35 <sgothel> (I know .. you will replace it all ..)
20150825 15:29:36 <eclesia> trying to keep it to the minimum
20150825 15:30:28 <gouessej> eclesia: What's wrong with stb_truetype except the fact it's in C?
20150825 15:30:41 <sgothel> yeah .. our evil BSD'ish free to use, copy and change license - horrible :)
20150825 15:30:42 <eclesia> nothing
20150825 15:32:14 <gouessej> sgothel: Maybe my question is silly
20150825 15:32:32 * xranby (~xranby@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150825 15:32:51 <sgothel> @Julien: I don't understand it
20150825 15:32:56 <sgothel> (the question)
20150825 15:37:27 <gouessej> sgothel: Ok. Harfbuzz is a library for text shaping. AAG manages the text rendering.
20150825 15:38:29 <gouessej> sgothel: I'd like to know which features are both implemented in the scenegraph API and in those APIs. Harfbuzz produces glyphs.
20150825 15:38:48 <sgothel> our graph [text] renderer pre-processes curves on the CPU (triangulation and coefficients) regardless of resolution and position, then renders them on the GPU matching position and current resolution
20150825 15:39:19 <sgothel> kerning and other features can not be implemented w/ our method (Apple does it in a similar way ..)
20150825 15:39:44 <sgothel> the glyphs -> curves is done via the imported truetype code ..
20150825 15:40:38 <gouessej> I assume that the computation of the curves from the glyphs is done in a text rendering API
20150825 15:40:40 <sgothel> (typecast by David Schweinsberg)
20150825 15:41:00 * xranby is happy and not irritated
20150825 15:42:01 <xranby> graph is mesmerizing
20150825 15:42:02 <sgothel> there is not much computation .. just collecting the curves from the fonts (typecast) .. then computing some coefficients for our renderer math, after having solved overlapping shapes by triangulation
20150825 15:42:54 <bruce-> how well does that work for small font sizes?
20150825 15:43:08 <sgothel> *the usual question* :)
20150825 15:43:26 <sgothel> you may want to have a look at our Graph UI demo ..
20150825 15:43:39 <bruce-> a screenshot will do :)
20150825 15:44:03 <sgothel> in short: on displays w/ dpi/ppi > 200 .. there is no issue at all (no aliasing artifacts)
20150825 15:44:23 <sgothel> below 200 ppi .. we utilize 'brute force' antialiasing
20150825 15:44:30 <xranby> bruce-: http://jogamp.org/jogl/www/media/jogl-applet-graph-text01.png
20150825 15:44:35 <sgothel> i.e. for every pixel .. etc
20150825 15:44:49 <xranby> http://jogamp.org/jogl/www/media/jogl-applet-graph-uiscene01.png
20150825 15:45:00 <sgothel> quite an old screenshot(s) ..
20150825 15:45:21 <sgothel> we have unit tests producing screenshots w/ diff. settings .. hmm
20150825 15:46:38 <gouessej> bruce: A former colleague wrote a RFE about this aspect
20150825 15:46:54 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/screenshots/graphui/20140324/
20150825 15:46:54 <gouessej> bruce-: A former colleague wrote a RFE about this aspect
20150825 15:47:01 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/screenshots/graphui/20140325/04-vbaa-allsamples/
20150825 15:47:24 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/screenshots/graphui/20140325/04-vbaa-allsamples/GraphUIDemo-shot005-800x400-S_vbaa_08.png
20150825 15:47:45 <sgothel> ^^ on a default DPI screen, i.e. ~96
20150825 15:48:50 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/screenshots/graphui/20140324/ <- shows the different AA methods
20150825 15:49:17 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/screenshots/graphui/20140325/04-vbaa-allsamples/ <- but we stick to 'all samples', i.e. 'brute force'
20150825 15:49:57 <bruce-> yeah, that is pretty much the only one I could find that produces usable results
20150825 15:50:11 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/screenshots/graphui/20140324/03-none-none/GraphUIDemo-shot002-800x400-S_norm_04.png <- w/o any AA on a 96 dpi screen :)
20150825 15:50:35 <sgothel> showing the same on a 200dpi screen shows no artifacts and a pristine picture ..
20150825 15:50:39 <sgothel> of course
20150825 15:51:41 <sgothel> I guess we don't need to talk about why we need AA (higher frequency signal source -> low signal target) .. etc etc
20150825 15:52:08 <sgothel> in short: we are quite satisfied w/ the result and performance
20150825 15:52:48 <sgothel> (especially knowing that screens >= 200 dpi will become the default)
20150825 15:54:40 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150825 15:58:31 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/files/screenshots/glmediaplayer/MovieSimple01-2urls.png <- 'white on black' (reverse high contrast) .. looks good too
20150825 15:58:36 <gouessej> sgothel: Thanks
20150825 16:01:35 <gouessej> sgothel: Do other APIs rendering text with hardware acceleration like Cairo require shaders?
20150825 16:01:57 <xranby> gouessej: cairo have tried to implement the patented loop blinn
20150825 16:02:40 <sgothel> .. they all failed somewhat
20150825 16:03:30 <gouessej> xranby: This? http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems3/gpugems3_ch25.html
20150825 16:03:47 <sgothel> in around 2007 I guess, our team at Sun was trying loop blinn algo as well, but .. well, failed somewhat
20150825 16:04:21 <gouessej> ok: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/cloop/LoopBlinn05.pdf
20150825 16:05:25 * gouessej (5ee4b442@anon) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
20150825 16:05:45 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/doc/gpunurbs2011/p70-santina.pdf <- Hence Rami dived into this .. I was begging him to find a solution :)
20150825 16:06:22 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/doc/gpunurbs2011/graphicon2011-slides.pdf
20150825 16:07:30 * eclesia (~husky@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150825 16:12:13 <elect_> what vbaa stays for?
20150825 16:30:43 <xranby> AA = anti alias
20150825 16:30:57 <xranby> MSAA is multi sample anti alias
20150825 16:31:08 <sgothel> view based AA
20150825 16:31:19 <xranby> sgothel: thank you
20150825 16:31:47 <sgothel> yeah we do MSAA ofc, 'view based', b/c we 'create a new view', i.e. higher sample count .. I guess :)
20150825 16:32:04 <sgothel> Rami introduced that name
20150825 16:32:22 <elect_> thanks both
20150825 16:33:39 <sgothel> for example freetype supports subpixel-AA as well (maybe a patent issue here) .. which we cannot utilize, since we don't grid-fit .. etc
20150825 16:34:07 <sgothel> hence we couldn't do an implicit AA .. well
20150825 16:34:21 <xranby> todo add VBAA to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_anti-aliasing
20150825 16:37:16 <sgothel> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_anti-aliasing#Super_sampling_.2F_full-scene_anti-aliasing <- well
20150825 16:39:11 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/git/?p=jogl.git;a=tree;f=src/jogl/classes/jogamp/graph/curve/opengl/shader;h=3357e5e4a6079f2a2dbb1527425ca8e07e38a835;hb=HEAD
20150825 16:39:27 <sgothel> ^^ the AA shader from previous screenshot page
20150825 16:44:35 <xranby> who can compose a short and correct text that describe VBAA with a reference to ramis paper?
20150825 16:45:07 <xranby> section 5 of the paper descrive: View Based Anti Alias-ing (VBAA)
20150825 16:46:04 <xranby> http://jogamp.org/doc/gpunurbs2011/p70-santina.pdf
20150825 16:46:32 <sgothel> '5. Anti-Aliasing'
20150825 16:46:47 <sgothel> VBAA is similar to FSAA
20150825 16:47:07 <sgothel> (if not the same)
20150825 16:47:39 <sgothel> but the gaussian filter he mentions .. is now 'all pixels' .. due to my visual validation, see URL above ..
20150825 16:48:03 <sgothel> but one may compare all AA filters .. and make a new/better proposal
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20150825 17:24:09 <xranby> good evening, tomorrow i will be driving around all day. i have pushed and sent pull request for all things that i like to see added to 2.3.2
20150825 19:06:33 * Eclesia (~eclesia@anon) has joined #jogamp
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20150825 19:41:35 <Eclesia> AA font aliazing on cpu is going to be a challenge :)
20150825 20:26:28 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150825 20:41:27 * elect_ (~elect@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
20150825 22:26:00 <xranby_> hmm.. updated my gpu driver to NVIDIA 355.06 and this driver crash druing main-SharedResourceRunner: GLContext.makeCurrent: Surfaceless evaluate
20150825 22:26:18 <sgothel> darn ..
20150825 22:26:23 <xranby_> how do i add the GLRendererQuirks#NoSurfacelessCtx quirk?
20150825 22:26:46 <sgothel> one sec ..
20150825 22:28:37 <sgothel> set property 'jogl.disable.surfacelesscontext' - need to refine javadoc ..
20150825 22:28:51 <sgothel> oh .. its there :)
20150825 22:29:03 <sgothel> Linux/NVidia-blob-355.06 ?
20150825 22:29:10 <xranby_> yes
20150825 22:29:21 <sgothel> so I will check that one later as well .. oh dear
20150825 22:29:35 <sgothel> it worked so well on the previous ones :-/
20150825 22:30:56 <sgothel> the getLOS thingy .. probably should be called on-thread w/o further locking, in case the event-callback is performed on-thread as well
20150825 22:31:19 <sgothel> (your commented out code -> deadlock)
20150825 22:32:08 <sgothel> will check that as well .. hmm
20150825 22:32:31 <xranby_> thank you for taking a look at *everything*
20150825 22:32:44 <sgothel> lol :)
20150825 22:34:01 <sgothel> 355.06: experimental full OpenGL support to EGL <- good
20150825 22:34:40 <xranby_> -Djogl.disable.surfacelesscontext made both etc/test.sh and etc/test_dbg.sh pass
20150825 22:35:15 <xranby_> using
20150825 22:35:19 <sgothel> 'Added support to make an OpenGL 3.0 and above context current without making current to any drawable.'
20150825 22:35:32 <xranby_> GL Profile GLProfile[GL4bc/GL4bc.hw]
20150825 22:35:32 <xranby_> GL Version 4.5 (Compat profile, arb, compat[ES2, ES3, ES31], FBO, hardware) - 4.5.0 NVIDIA 355.06 [GL 4.5.0, vendor 355.6.0 (NVIDIA 355.06)]
20150825 22:35:32 <xranby_> Quirks [NoSurfacelessCtx]
20150825 22:35:32 <xranby_> Impl. class jogamp.opengl.gl4.GL4bcImpl
20150825 22:35:32 <xranby_> GL_VENDOR NVIDIA Corporation
20150825 22:35:32 <xranby_> GL_RENDERER GeForce GTX 580/PCIe/SSE2
20150825 22:35:32 <xranby_> GL_VERSION 4.5.0 NVIDIA 355.06
20150825 22:35:33 <xranby_> GLSL true, has-compiler-func: true, version: 4.50 NVIDIA / 4.50.0
20150825 22:35:33 <xranby_> GL FBO: basic true, full true
20150825 22:35:34 <xranby_> GL_EXTENSIONS 309
20150825 22:35:34 <xranby_> GLX_EXTENSIONS 32
20150825 22:35:38 <sgothel> that is exactly what 'surfaceless context' is all about :)
20150825 22:36:05 <xranby_> so they advertize a broken feature?
20150825 22:36:14 <sgothel> it worked before ..
20150825 22:36:20 <xranby_> hmm
20150825 22:36:21 <sgothel> will see later ..
20150825 22:36:40 <xranby_> when it stops beeing beta?
20150825 22:36:59 <xranby_> should we try support beta drivers or not
20150825 22:37:05 <sgothel> GL Profile GLProfile[GL4/GL4.hw]
20150825 22:37:05 <sgothel> GL Version 4.5 (Core profile, arb, compat[ES2, ES3, ES31], FBO, hardware) - 4.5.0 NVIDIA 352.21 [GL 4.5.0, vendor 352.21.0 (NVIDIA 352.21)]
20150825 22:37:05 <sgothel> Quirks [NoSurfacelessCtx]
20150825 22:37:10 <sgothel> No .. it did not :-/
20150825 22:37:31 <sgothel> nope .. will debug it today
20150825 22:37:54 <xranby_> always happy to bring these kind of things up before release
20150825 22:37:59 <sgothel> i.e. this is ofc we don't want our users to be exposed ..
20150825 22:38:04 <sgothel> haha
20150825 22:38:15 <sgothel> yeah .. indeed .. invaluable! thx!
20150825 22:38:35 <sgothel> right .. Mesa3D supports surfacelessctx pretty well
20150825 22:39:28 <xranby_> opensource is good yes
20150825 22:39:35 <xranby_> free software drivers
20150825 22:40:19 <xranby_> i think the main diffrence between jogl users and devs is the fine line if they can read the wall of text from the etc/test_dbg.sh
20150825 22:43:20 <xranby_> also you get happy each time a glwindow opens
20150825 22:43:29 <xranby_> w/o any rendering
20150825 22:44:08 <sgothel> *cold sweating* .. pop-up .. phewww .. :)
20150825 22:45:40 <sgothel> lets say .. if we pass our initialization, changes are great things will work fine :)
20150825 22:47:01 <xranby_> indeed!
20150825 22:53:39 <xranby_> get location on screen also tries to grab the nativewindow.DefaultGraphicsDevice lock
20150825 22:54:33 <xranby_> by performing its magic inside runWithLockedDisplayDevice
20150825 22:55:11 <sgothel> yup .. callback is windowMove? (sic)
20150825 22:56:03 <xranby_> yes it is windowMoved
20150825 22:57:04 <sgothel> EVENT_WINDOW_MOVED is sent on-thread, i.e. not deferred ..
20150825 22:57:16 <sgothel> hence we could call the getLOS w/o any locking
20150825 22:57:20 <xranby_> two ways of fixing it 1 i shall put all my "reactions" to the events in some queue to be processed later
20150825 22:57:29 <xranby_> 2 remove locks
20150825 22:57:50 <sgothel> X11Lib.GetRelativeLocation(dpy, getScreenIndex(), getWindowHandle(), 0 /*root win*/, x, y); <- call directly ..
20150825 22:58:01 <xranby_> and if you can remove the locks since we are at the same thread great!
20150825 22:58:24 <sgothel> yes .. call X11Lib thingy directly .. should be fine
20150825 23:02:10 <xranby_> i can give it a try.. fixing the LOS will not fix all issues however.. it will deadlock when i fire off the new event as well..
20150825 23:05:52 <xranby_> using X11Lib from this location is also hmm tricky... i only have the X11 window hidden in a WindowImpl class... lets see how i can typecast it to be usefull
20150825 23:06:15 <xranby_> ... WindowImpl object...
20150825 23:07:04 <sgothel> X11's WindowDriver _is_a_ WindowImpl
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20150825 23:07:31 <sgothel> ok .. installing NV beta driver .. back in a bit ...
20150825 23:07:43 <sgothel> (merged and pushed changes)
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20150825 23:28:09 <sgothel> @Xerxes: Crash reproduced on Debian8 GNU/Linux x86_64 'NV 355.06 blob'
20150825 23:31:21 <xranby_> thank you for confirming
20150825 23:33:50 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1200
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20150826 00:04:39 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1200#c2
20150826 00:08:52 <xranby_> nvidia released two drivers in august.. this 355.06 beta driver
20150826 00:09:21 <xranby_> and the "OpenGL 2015 Driver" https://developer.nvidia.com/opengl-driver with version 355.00.05
20150826 00:10:29 <xranby_> the 355.00.05 "OpenGL 2015 Driver" is the first driver with ES 3.2 support
20150826 00:11:14 <xranby_> i dont know how nvidias versioning numbers work
20150826 00:12:23 <xranby_> a lower number on a sub 355.00.XX is a developer release with the newest stuff while a 355.XX is a beta of the stable branch?
20150826 00:13:38 <sgothel> probably sort of in parallel ..
20150826 00:13:47 <xranby_> in any case.. this means i should probably check if the 355.00.05 "OpenGL 2015 Driver" also need a quirk
20150826 00:13:51 <sgothel> 355.00.05 may not include this 'feature'
20150826 00:20:08 <xranby_> brb rebooting to test this driver
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20150826 00:57:58 <xranby__> well... that update didnt go well, usb locked up during boot, black screen, only the powerbutton was operational
20150826 00:58:19 <xranby__> will fix the machine another day
20150826 00:58:56 <sgothel> ops ..
20150826 00:59:00 <xranby__> sgothel: good luck with testing
20150826 00:59:17 <xranby__> at least the kernel was running
20150826 00:59:19 <sgothel> I will add the quirk regardless .. i.e. is vendor is NVIDIA (all OS ..)
20150826 00:59:34 <sgothel> later, when we can test a new version .. we can limit it ..
20150826 00:59:57 <xranby__> good good
20150826 01:00:49 <xranby__> well.. its reality, quirky drivers
20150826 01:00:49 <xranby__> etc
20150826 01:01:17 <xranby__> good night
20150826 01:02:28 <xranby__> btw. i know you probably need to test this other driver in order to check that es 3.2 is working.. *ahem*
20150826 01:02:31 <xranby__> :)
20150826 01:02:41 <sgothel> hehe
20150826 01:03:18 <sgothel> I was already looking for ES 3.2 .. in the debug dump .. so need to check other driver
20150826 01:06:09 <xranby__> btw.. speaking of the financial things.. short summary: the chinese government cashed out?
20150826 01:07:07 <sgothel> hmm A-Level shares .. they went up ~200% a while ago, so the little dump lately ..
20150826 01:07:30 <sgothel> yes, they simply try to compensate the FED crazy ..
20150826 01:07:46 <sgothel> selling bonds 1st .. now devaluation
20150826 01:08:04 <sgothel> (spreading the balance sheet)
20150826 01:08:04 <xranby__> i thought they injected more money 7 days ago
20150826 01:08:23 <sgothel> yes .. thats a devaluation .. and same yesterday ..
20150826 01:08:31 <sgothel> rate cuts ..
20150826 01:09:11 <sgothel> A level shares only for citizen .. btw
20150826 01:09:25 <sgothel> 10% +/- per day :)
20150826 01:09:40 <sgothel> we refrained from this gamble ofc
20150826 01:11:09 <sgothel> so the *scare* is *on* .. black september early on .. we will see if the QE (proven to be wrong) gets into another round .. or FED rate hikes (finally) ..
20150826 01:11:25 <sgothel> that normalization will cost quite a thing .. some say -30%
20150826 01:11:59 <sgothel> (in stocks .. since its just borrowed money .. company self buy crap .. )
20150826 01:12:52 <sgothel> I am surprised the EUR is being holding quite well .. probably being pegged
20150826 01:14:57 <xranby__> yes it is odd since the ECB runs its devaluation cannon
20150826 01:16:17 <xranby__> when stocks fall people cash out
20150826 01:16:42 <xranby__> so i guess it is natural that larger fiat rise at days like this
20150826 01:18:08 <xranby__> but hoding a paper that the issuer keeps printing more and more of.. hmm cant end well
20150826 01:18:44 <xranby__> its like stealing from everyones pocket
20150826 01:19:03 <xranby__> without you noticing it
20150826 01:19:12 <xranby__> devaluation
20150826 01:19:21 <sgothel> yup .. and ZIRP forces normal people to invest their pennies for savings -> horrible
20150826 01:20:29 <sgothel> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-25/devaluation-stunner-china-has-dumped-100-billion-treasurys-past-two-weeks .. lol
20150826 01:21:10 <sgothel> well, Chinese don't store value in currency .. so usually no problem here
20150826 01:22:00 <sgothel> maybe we should go out and ask for a big loan .. before .. :)
20150826 01:23:16 <sgothel> and the joke is .. those sold bonds are bought from some dude in Belgium .. (like when Russia sold a bunch)
20150826 01:25:04 <xranby__> the ECB dude?
20150826 01:25:14 <sgothel> dunno .. nobody does
20150826 01:25:38 <sgothel> somebody seems not to like USD loose reserve status .. but it will happen soon
20150826 01:26:27 <sgothel> then .. well, the USD bonds, US state's debt might become a problem .. B--- :)
20150826 01:27:39 <xranby__> the USD is pegged to the Dirham AED
20150826 01:27:48 <xranby__> and i think they are quite tired keeping it up
20150826 01:28:08 <xranby__> they have debated cutting the peg for quite some time
20150826 01:28:24 <sgothel> always good to cut debt by devaluation .. yup
20150826 01:28:48 <sgothel> and since it is telegraphed .. all shall be prepared
20150826 01:29:00 <xranby__> the decision will be taken by the UAE central bank
20150826 01:29:35 <sgothel> :)
20150826 01:31:06 <xranby__> ok good night, i feel sorry for all who take their payment in usd or eur when that happen
20150826 01:31:38 <sgothel> yeah .. we are sorry :-/ .. heck .. whatever :)
20150826 01:31:40 <sgothel> goody
20150826 01:31:54 <sgothel> and safe driving later ..
20150826 01:32:11 <xranby__> 7h on the road..
20150826 01:32:16 <sgothel> autch
20150826 01:32:30 <sgothel> Germany? visit us!
20150826 01:33:05 <xranby__> have to deliver something across sweden that has to be delivered today.. for legal reasons
20150826 01:33:22 <sgothel> good luck .. hope you don't need guns :)
20150826 01:33:53 <xranby__> hospital contracts related
20150826 01:33:58 <xranby__> we are their suppliers
20150826 01:34:07 <xranby__> of health thingies
20150826 01:34:17 <sgothel> just kidding - thought so .. sweet
20150826 01:35:13 * xranby__ (5ae119af@anon) has left #jogamp
20150826 05:05:31 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20150826050531.html