#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20160610 05:06:17 (UTC)

20160610 05:06:17 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160609050616.html
20160610 05:06:17 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160610050617.html
20160610 06:15:48 * SHC (~quassel@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160610 07:07:33 * elect (~GBarbieri@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160610 07:13:24 <elect> hi
20160610 07:30:04 * Eclesia (~husky@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160610 07:32:21 <Eclesia> good morning
20160610 07:33:35 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) has joined #jogamp
20160610 09:41:38 <elect> for my rendering list I would like to have a collection sortable on different criterias
20160610 09:42:23 <elect> and that'd allow me to get only a sub-list with the required criterias
20160610 09:42:40 <elect> which structure in java 8 is best for this purpouse?
20160610 09:48:30 <zubzub> check the stream api
20160610 09:48:42 <elect> .thenCompare()?
20160610 09:48:50 <elect> can I retrieve the sub-list?
20160610 09:49:00 <zubzub> no idea, check it ;)
20160610 09:49:11 <elect> googled, I found nothing
20160610 09:49:23 <zubzub> sub list as in range?
20160610 09:49:29 <zubzub> or sub list as in filter?
20160610 09:50:08 <elect> let me check
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20160610 11:57:31 <xranby2> Eclesia: JOAL mostly fix issues by bundle openal-soft. thus JOAL development closely track what is happening with the openal-soft implementation
20160610 11:58:15 <xranby2> it is feature complete since there is no new OpenAL standard
20160610 12:00:41 <xranby2> the best thing that have happened in OpenAL land is that Creatives's openal homepage expired and icculus the author of OpenAL-soft registered the openal.org domain
20160610 12:02:42 <xranby2> correction Chris Robinson is the author of OpenAL-soft
20160610 12:04:01 <xranby2> however icculus Ryan C. Gordon runs the openal.org site and mailinglist for openal-soft
20160610 12:07:12 <Eclesia> so audio doesn't move, so I could finish this part at least in my engine
20160610 12:14:02 <rmk0> really glad openal-soft exists
20160610 12:14:33 <rmk0> up until a while ago, the only way to get the programmer's guide was to run a windows exe and pull the pdf out of the installed files
20160610 12:14:40 * rmk0 kicks creative
20160610 12:15:40 <xranby2> openal-soft 1.16.0 adds one interesting extension for correct 3d sound using hearphones http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal-extensions/SOFT_HRTF.txt
20160610 12:15:46 <xranby2> headphones
20160610 12:16:23 <rmk0> anyone remember how half-life 1 used the proprietary predecessor (EAX) to do per-room ambience/reverb settings?
20160610 12:16:31 <rmk0> never seem to see (hear) that anymore
20160610 12:17:18 <xranby2> Remember EAX and A3D? Forget them. OpenAL is vendor neutral.
20160610 12:17:29 <rmk0> urhur
20160610 12:18:16 <rmk0> point i was making is that the half life games made really good use of dynamically controlled reverb effects
20160610 12:18:46 <rmk0> when crawling in an air duct, it'd switch to a very metallic sounding reverb with low delay, high feedback, etc
20160610 12:19:08 <rmk0> when in a canyon, you'd get long echoes on all sounds
20160610 12:19:16 <rmk0> wish i could find a video that demonstrated it...
20160610 12:19:21 <xranby2> yes, half life impressed me much with its intro
20160610 12:50:18 <Eclesia> you can't do that with openal ?
20160610 12:54:46 <bruce-> sure, you just have to do the sound processing yourself
20160610 12:56:01 <Eclesia> easssyyy
20160610 12:58:45 <rmk0> you can do it with openal
20160610 12:59:08 <rmk0> if you're using a hardware implementation of openal, you might optionally have EAX. if you're using openal-soft, you're guaranteed to have it, but it'll be a software implementation
20160610 12:59:12 <rmk0> works fine
20160610 12:59:19 <bruce-> hm
20160610 12:59:29 <rmk0> even hardware implementations do guarantee support for some effect algorithms, but they're not as good as the EAX ones
20160610 12:59:30 <bruce-> I am looking for something like rtaudio for java
20160610 13:00:28 <rmk0> a speech codec?
20160610 13:01:00 <bruce-> https://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/rtaudio/
20160610 13:01:28 <rmk0> hm, right
20160610 13:01:52 <bruce-> or at least something that allows me to use more than 8 channels
20160610 13:02:33 <bruce-> also, I am not such a fan of OpenALs sound positioning
20160610 13:02:48 <bruce-> which is probably great for games, but not so nice for anything that is not a game
20160610 13:03:08 * jvanek (jvanek@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
20160610 13:03:12 <rmk0> probably not
20160610 13:03:48 <rmk0> what do you mean by 8 channels? there's more than one way to interpret that...
20160610 13:04:26 <bruce-> in this case every channel ends up in a speaker
20160610 13:04:37 <rmk0> right
20160610 13:05:03 <rmk0> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.1_surround ?
20160610 13:07:15 <rmk0> openal-soft does claim support for that, but i don't think it supports arbitrary processing of audio (unless you write your own extensions in C)
20160610 13:07:44 <bruce-> I have 26 channels though
20160610 13:08:05 <bruce-> ah, it was not rtaudio but portaudio that seemed ok
20160610 13:09:03 <rmk0> ah, yeah, used it back in the olden days
20160610 13:09:37 <bruce-> now, for such setups we use ableton live (raah) or supercollider
20160610 13:10:01 <Eclesia> 26 channels .... wtf
20160610 13:10:11 <rmk0> you can't just mention supercollider in polite conversation!
20160610 13:10:18 <rmk0> that could inflict significant trauma on people
20160610 13:10:29 <bruce-> I am not a great fan of the language
20160610 13:12:09 <rmk0> i think you're going to be stuck with either portaudio bindings or jack bindings
20160610 13:12:26 <Eclesia> hum sorry, I rewrite it : what an astonishing number of channels you got, I barely can imagine why someone could need this much
20160610 13:12:31 <bruce-> portaudio it is, or is there jack on osx/windows?
20160610 13:12:51 <rmk0> i... believe the jack people claim jack works on os x and windows, but i'm not sure i'd trust them
20160610 13:12:56 <bruce-> Eclesia: large media installations
20160610 13:13:33 <bruce-> linux people seem to have strange ideas of working when it comes to audio
20160610 13:14:22 <zubzub> linux is ok as long as you're happy with stereo
20160610 13:14:50 <Eclesia> 2ears => 2 channels => 100% happy :)
20160610 13:15:16 <bruce-> yeah, that line of reasoning only works when your world is your desk
20160610 13:15:53 <rmk0> i would guess at least half the userbase doesn't have the required kernel support compiled in as well
20160610 13:15:53 <Eclesia> don't be silly, there is nothing after the desk edges
20160610 13:17:21 <rmk0> think to do any kind of professional audio on linux, you end up having to be using a custom distribution that's geared towards that
20160610 13:17:41 <rmk0> have had extremely bad experiences with every single piece of audio software on linux
20160610 13:18:01 <rmk0> i spent a good couple of years (a long time ago) trying anything i could find
20160610 13:18:20 <rmk0> can still reliably crash ardour with 10-15 minutes use
20160610 13:18:29 <bruce-> my experiences exactly
20160610 13:18:29 <rmk0> hasn't gotten any better in some ten years of development
20160610 13:19:35 <rmk0> to be fair(ish), the proprietary stuff on other operating systems isn't any better
20160610 13:20:22 <rmk0> all the musicians i've known have all of their software crash repeatedly all day and they just live with it
20160610 13:20:47 <rmk0> and continue to pay that >= $1000 yearly ransom fee to keep being able to open their data
20160610 13:21:30 <rmk0> selling music software must be great. huge price tag and zero quality control of any kind, and a captive market \o/
20160610 13:24:36 * rmk0 used to be a musician
20160610 13:24:39 * rmk0 may still be bitter
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20160610 13:49:10 <bruce-> you wouldn't say
20160610 13:57:44 <rmk0> ' . ' ° \o/ ' ; .
20160610 14:19:26 <elect> instrument, rmk0 ?
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20160610 14:20:13 <rmk0> elect: anything with strings, really, but i used to compose electronic music mostly
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20160610 14:20:37 <elect> anything on youtube to hear it on the fly? :D
20160610 14:20:42 <rmk0> nope
20160610 14:22:07 <rmk0> i stopped paying the ransom fee, so anything that wasn't exported to audio is long lost
20160610 14:23:10 <elect> Would be interesting to find out why the situation is so crap on the music sw market
20160610 14:26:32 <rmk0> c++ is a problem
20160610 14:27:14 <rmk0> writing extremely large concurrent programs with soft-realtime constraints, in a type-unsafe, memory-unsafe language
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20160610 14:27:20 <rmk0> that alone is a guaranteed massive pile of bugs
20160610 14:36:20 <rmk0> pretty much everything is proprietary to the core, too
20160610 14:36:33 <rmk0> you can't freely implement things like VST, etc
20160610 14:36:47 <rmk0> can't sell programs that run against the ASIO API without licensing, etc
20160610 14:37:15 <rmk0> obviously can't open the data files of any of the other DAWs as they're all proprietary and have a vested interest in keeping people locked in
20160610 14:38:48 <rmk0> it's not a market i would want anything to do with
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20160610 15:26:46 <xranby1> https://maximilian-boehm.com/hp2121/Create-a-Java-Keystore-JKS-from-Let-s-Encrypt-Certificates.htm <- how to use lets encrypt certificates for jar signing
20160610 15:29:23 <rmk0> i thought they weren't issuing code signing certs...
20160610 15:30:30 <xranby1> ah you are right
20160610 15:30:41 <xranby1> however this is usefull if you want to run ssl using jetty
20160610 15:31:25 <rmk0> curious why they aren't issuing them, actually
20160610 15:32:09 <rmk0> https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/code-signing-certificates/815
20160610 15:32:13 <rmk0> not very enlightening
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20160610 17:46:49 <Eclesia> Java EE : a new corpse on oracle's path https://javaee-guardians.io
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20160610 18:16:21 <rmk0> don't really understand what problem EE is solving
20160610 18:17:24 <Eclesia> none
20160610 18:18:03 <rmk0> so... it's good that they aren't wasting resources on it?
20160610 18:19:56 <Eclesia> java EE => JSP,JSF,JNDI,.... many api
20160610 18:20:18 <Eclesia> so it's not that good
20160610 18:21:12 <Eclesia> well it has always been a bit obscure what java EE really means :/
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20160610 18:42:02 <zubzub> java ee are java apis for back-end use case
20160610 18:42:11 <zubzub> the thing is that it exists for a long time
20160610 18:42:19 <zubzub> so it gathers a lot of apis
20160610 18:42:21 <zubzub> some good
20160610 18:42:23 <zubzub> some bad
20160610 18:42:24 <xranby1> rmk0: Eclesia: zubzub: Jenkins is one quite popular java EE app
20160610 18:42:38 <zubzub> jenkins is just a war
20160610 18:42:50 <zubzub> but it's a nice example of java ee usage
20160610 18:43:03 <rmk0> xranby1: doesn't require EE to run though, does it? i've run it here on SE (and then shut it down in disgust after a week or so)
20160610 18:43:09 <zubzub> If you think wtfs java ee, I'd advice to have a look at apache camel
20160610 18:43:15 <zubzub> in combination with service mix
20160610 18:43:36 <zubzub> very powerfull, yet remarkably simple
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20160610 18:43:57 <zubzub> http://servicemix.apache.org/
20160610 18:44:13 <xranby1> rmk0: tomcat implements the EE part. you still only need java se to run tomcat
20160610 18:44:48 <zubzub> tomcat implements a part of EE
20160610 18:44:54 <zubzub> it's a hybrid web/application container
20160610 18:45:10 <zubzub> the demonic behmot glassfish is a more complete ee container
20160610 18:45:43 <xranby1> glassfish still only require java se to run.. all EE is provided by glassfish
20160610 18:45:46 <zubzub> anyway I try to stay away from EE :p
20160610 18:45:50 <zubzub> yup
20160610 18:46:06 <zubzub> I like small simple things
20160610 18:46:15 <zubzub> embedded things
20160610 18:48:37 <xranby1> in a nutshell.. as soon as someone thinks lets build a java webserver then they are using java ee
20160610 18:49:15 <xranby1> especially if java applications can be slotted into this server
20160610 19:31:27 <Eclesia> I have a strange bug. at some point I load a shader program enable it, everything is ok. later on I activate a debugging code which render using the fixed pipeline glBegin...glEnd. when I try to enable my shaderprogram afterward it doesn't work anymore.
20160610 19:31:33 <Eclesia> I call glUseProgram like always
20160610 19:31:58 <Eclesia> but when I read back which program is active it's another one.
20160610 19:32:27 <Eclesia> gl.getGL2ES2().glUseProgram(id);
20160610 19:32:27 <Eclesia> final int pid = GLState.getCurrentProgramId(gl);
20160610 19:32:28 <Eclesia> if(pid!=id) throw new ShaderException("!!!!!!!!!!! program, current is "+pid+" was expecting program "+ id);
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20160610 20:20:12 <dwbrite> Eclesia: Is there a Chars equivalent for StringBuilder?
20160610 20:20:56 <Eclesia> dwbrite: CharBuffer
20160610 20:21:05 <dwbrite> Thank you
20160610 20:21:46 <Eclesia> dwbrite: don't forget to pull the code I made some formatting
20160610 20:22:27 <Eclesia> (If you are working on LargeDecimal)
20160610 20:36:37 <dwbrite> Oh thanks. When did you add the doxygen thing? It's really nice
20160610 20:38:53 <Eclesia> dwbrite: long ago, will remove it when the markdown parser gets better. the new doc will look something like this : http://unlicense.developpez.com/doc_new/
20160610 20:39:46 <dwbrite> Really? Maybe I just never clicked the link before.
20160610 20:40:10 <Eclesia> this one is not in on the main page links ^^
20160610 20:40:49 <dwbrite> I meant the link to doxygen page
20160610 20:42:10 <Eclesia> k
20160610 21:16:16 <Eclesia> good night ++
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20160611 05:06:17 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20160611050617.html