#jogamp @ irc.freenode.net - 20150916 05:05:10 (UTC)
20150916 05:05:10 -jogamp- Previous @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20150915050510.html
20150916 05:05:10 -jogamp- This channel is logged @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20150916050510.html
20150916 06:38:54 * elect (~GBarbieri@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150916 06:42:12 <elect> hi
20150916 06:53:29 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150916 08:18:35 <xranby> sgothel: good morning, i will report everything :)
20150916 08:35:32 * xranby grabs the next test subject an asus eeepc 900 from the test cabinet
20150916 09:08:37 <xranby> huh.. odd.. we hit a SIGFPE FPE_INTDIV during System.load(/tmp/jogamp_0000/file_cache/jln2257317219770502499/jln2344440463579288777/natives/linux-i586/libgluegen-rt.sp) - mode 2
20150916 09:08:45 <xranby> this is something we can fix
20150916 09:08:47 <xranby> i think
20150916 09:09:23 <xranby> i will file a bugreport for this asus eeepc 900 and include /proc/cpuinfo
20150916 09:10:19 <xranby> sgothel: ^
20150916 09:10:49 <monsieur_max> Hi guys
20150916 09:10:57 <xranby> monsieur_max: good morning
20150916 09:11:14 <monsieur_max> having fun , i see ;)
20150916 09:11:42 <xranby> monsieur_max: yes ,, i am testing year 2007 and 2008 devices in combination with the latest release
20150916 09:11:54 <xranby> these asus eeepc's where way ahead of their time
20150916 09:12:05 <xranby> java preinstalled [check]
20150916 09:12:13 <xranby> gnu/linux system [check]
20150916 09:12:20 <xranby> low price [check]
20150916 09:13:02 <xranby> shipped in millions of units [check]
20150916 09:13:18 <xranby> people has iddues installing software on them
20150916 09:13:26 <xranby> but since it have java preinstalled
20150916 09:13:33 <xranby> and a working plugin and webstart
20150916 09:13:42 <xranby> this should not have been any issue in my book
20150916 09:14:25 <xranby> and i think this model 900 have decent opengl drivers.. (penguin racer preinstalled runs blazing fast)
20150916 09:17:04 <monsieur_max> yeah got one like that :)
20150916 09:17:27 <xranby> we used these asus netbooks at the time to showcase our laboratory system however the hospitals considered the netbooks to something people would like to steal
20150916 09:17:43 <xranby> thus we had to make something that looked more industrial
20150916 09:18:09 <xranby> monsieur_max: which model do you have?
20150916 09:18:42 <monsieur_max> i do not own it anymore, gave it to my mother ;)
20150916 09:18:46 <monsieur_max> a 901 i think
20150916 09:19:06 <xranby> ok let me fix this bug and then we can try run your game on your moms 901 :D
20150916 09:19:21 <monsieur_max> the only netbook i still own is a thinkpad x201
20150916 09:19:59 <monsieur_max> xranby: well :P i won't be able to test on it ... 900km far
20150916 09:20:30 <xranby> she only have to visit an url to play, javaws and applet support is preinstalled by default!
20150916 09:21:04 <xranby> 1Gb of ram should be enough
20150916 09:21:10 <monsieur_max> xranby: guess what, i formated everything ... running latest xubuntu
20150916 09:21:19 <xranby> ah.. well bummer then :)
20150916 09:21:33 <xranby> maybe she have icedtea-web installed
20150916 09:21:48 <monsieur_max> don't ask too much
20150916 09:22:20 <xranby> in any case.. i love to see hardware that people think is of no use getting usefull
20150916 09:22:47 <xranby> and this device have a quite impressive initial setup of software
20150916 09:23:01 <monsieur_max> well, it's totally enough to do what 90% people do
20150916 09:23:43 <monsieur_max> just have to be carefull when choosing the OS and try to be light with the machine
20150916 09:29:05 <monsieur_max> xranby: remeber the video playback issue of last week ? My graphist will produce some more videos, like the one i sent you, but trying other settigns / format, in order to see if that can solve the fluidity issue
20150916 09:32:24 <xranby> monsieur_max: thank you,, still looking into it, jogamp takes several precations to prevent glitches: we decode 3 video frames in advance and we decode audio in advance, thus in theory there should not be possible to have glitches (tm)
20150916 09:33:12 <monsieur_max> it's not really glitches, just not as fluid as expected
20150916 09:33:58 <xranby> i will then look if we for some reason drop frames because we think we are already in the future
20150916 09:35:01 <xranby> i will also test with the new jogamp build with reworked locking code
20150916 09:36:39 <xranby> http://jogamp.org/deployment/archive/master/gluegen_888-joal_614-jogl_1438-jocl_1083-signed/ <- It's dangerous to go alone! Take this.
20150916 09:38:24 <monsieur_max> :) hehe
20150916 09:40:56 <xranby> da ta da daaaaa! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvODpHnV9o4
20150916 09:41:37 <monsieur_max> i see you know your classics !
20150916 09:42:33 <monsieur_max> xranby: graphist is making live test, ill tell you the result soon
20150916 09:48:09 <xranby> best is if you can add a clock counter in the corner so that i can compare with the wall clock
20150916 09:48:28 <xranby> .. one idea
20150916 09:48:44 <monsieur_max> xranby: can you please elaborate ?
20150916 09:49:24 <xranby> since we sync video with the audio, if audio is playback too slow then video wil also be playback too slow
20150916 09:49:49 <xranby> thus it would be good to have one absolute reference of time
20150916 09:50:07 <xranby> like if the video display a timer that you can compare with a wall clock
20150916 09:50:29 <xranby> then I know if the playback on my side is synced with the wall clock at your side
20150916 09:50:50 <monsieur_max> ok, i see, not sure it'll be easy enough to do but I'll ask
20150916 09:50:58 <xranby> only do it if it is easy
20150916 09:51:23 <xranby> i think people working with video edit's are used to have a timer in the corner to solve such issues
20150916 09:52:52 <xranby> there is several premade countdown timer videos available that people mix into their video to verify timing
20150916 09:55:28 <xranby> i will check using these videos for a start http://editorsean.com/articles/audio-video-sync-alignment-latency-test/
20150916 09:58:00 <monsieur_max> another issue is that I've got a few "green" frames displayed at the beginning of the video, like before the video starts, displaying some weird backbuffer data; Ring a bell ?
20150916 09:59:42 <xranby> ouch, that sounds like a security bug
20150916 10:00:06 <monsieur_max> maybe it's my fault, i have to test with the default player
20150916 10:01:21 <xranby> it is possible that we need to create a new bug and have the new bug depend on https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1206
20150916 10:02:07 <xranby> This shall ensure that no user or any 3rd party utility will be enabled to read uninitialized memory. The latter could be content of previous windows or even any arbitrary memory region, depending of the underlying driver.
20150916 10:03:08 <monsieur_max> xranby: the displayed data is always a green mess, looking like what is displayed when no decoding library can be found
20150916 10:03:15 <monsieur_max> it last like 0.5sec
20150916 10:03:57 <monsieur_max> maybe it's my fault, still have to investigate, maybe i start displaying the video texture too soon
20150916 10:07:55 <xranby> monsieur_max: a quick workaround for the green things may be to seek 0.5s into the video from the start... and check if that solve it
20150916 10:08:03 <xranby> however it need to be investigated
20150916 10:08:11 <xranby> since it may be uninitialized memory
20150916 10:08:31 <monsieur_max> xranby: i was thinking about just hiding the frames
20150916 10:09:44 <xranby> i think green may be a side effect if you pass a lot of zeroes into the YUV to RGB conversion done by the opengl shader
20150916 10:10:41 <xranby> the decoder gives us video frames in YUV format and we need to convert the frames to RGB
20150916 10:11:03 <xranby> thus we use hardware acceleration in the GPU driver to do the YUV to RGB conversion
20150916 10:11:24 <xranby> therefore i think it may be uninitialized memory
20150916 10:11:40 <xranby> seen during the first frames
20150916 10:11:54 <xranby> hence .. must be scrutinized
20150916 10:12:08 <xranby> ideally this should be handled by the GLMediaPlayer
20150916 10:24:18 * Eclesia (~eclesia@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150916 10:24:32 <Eclesia> hi
20150916 10:29:45 <xranby> Eclesia: hi
20150916 10:30:07 <xranby> monsieur_max: on my machine the glitches are much reduced if i disable v-sync (swap interval 0 )
20150916 10:30:48 <xranby> press v during MovieCube to disable vsync
20150916 10:33:17 <xranby> on my machine i only see black at the beginning
20150916 10:33:41 <xranby> monsieur_max: please tell more about the system setup when you see green at the beginning
20150916 10:45:23 <monsieur_max> xranby: strange, i tested with removing vsync with no result
20150916 10:45:34 <monsieur_max> ( but taht was on linux, maybe you have a nother setup )
20150916 10:45:40 <xranby> i am on linux
20150916 10:45:47 <monsieur_max> mmmh ok
20150916 10:45:58 <xranby> vitout vsync i am running at 300fps
20150916 10:46:02 <xranby> without
20150916 10:46:27 <xranby> the movie is at 30fps
20150916 10:47:00 <xranby> 33.333332 fdur
20150916 11:08:39 <xranby> http://editorsean.com/articles/audio-video-sync-alignment-latency-test/ <- the videos here show that jogamp is perfect in sync with audio and video
20150916 11:09:33 <xranby> java -cp jogl/build/jar/jogl-test.jar:gluegen/build/gluegen-rt.jar:jogl/build/jar/jogl-all.jar:joal/build/jar/joal.jar com/jogamp/opengl/test/junit/jogl/demos/es2/av/MovieCube -url file:///home/xranby/sound_in_sync_test.mp4
20150916 11:24:09 <xranby> next need to find a test movie to investigate subtile stuttering
20150916 11:43:22 <Eclesia> quick question, I have this error more and more often : Waited 5000ms for: <5de5a698, 59da29fc>[count 2, qsz 0, owner <Thread-3-FPSAWTAnimator#00-Timer0>] - <Thread-5>
20150916 11:43:25 <Eclesia> java.lang.RuntimeException: Waited 5000ms for: <5de5a698, 59da29fc>[count 2, qsz 0, owner <Thread-3-FPSAWTAnimator#00-Timer0>] - <Thread-5>
20150916 11:43:43 <Eclesia> Is there an easy wait to increase this timeout ?
20150916 11:46:57 <monsieur_max> xranby: ok so last results show that 60FPs is perfectly fine
20150916 11:48:01 <monsieur_max> xranby: and i fixed the green frame issue, i was using texture from getNextTexture(gl) rather than getLastTexture() ... duh
20150916 12:08:34 <sgothel> yes .. green -> YUV of zeros ..getNext* is blocking - good morning :)
20150916 12:08:53 <monsieur_max> that makes sense, once you know it ;)
20150916 12:09:22 <sgothel> when you use a new API, rtfm :)
20150916 12:10:16 <monsieur_max> i am totally guilty
20150916 12:11:42 <sgothel> @Xerxes: I was using a few sync videos myself .. I can remember the nightmare of *BEEP* and *FLASH* .. :)
20150916 12:11:58 <sgothel> .. until it was synced .. oh dear
20150916 12:16:13 <sgothel> when you have issues w/ our wiki/bugzilla .. say it, they got updated - for wiki skin I use 95% 'zoom'
20150916 12:22:54 <Eclesia> sgothel: o/
20150916 12:24:11 <sgothel> good vacation .. Eclesia
20150916 12:25:55 <Eclesia> yop it was nice, family, good food and so on ... no coding at all (no computer)
20150916 12:36:02 * xranby_f22 (~familjen@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150916 12:36:34 <xranby_f22> sgothel: hi!
20150916 12:38:50 <sgothel> sweet
20150916 12:43:08 <xranby_f22> when i run jogamp jogl on a slightly newer asus eeepc model 900 i run into what looks like a x86 32bit glibc incompatibility issue, caused by compiling against a new glibc and trying to run it on a system with an old version of glibc
20150916 12:43:32 <sgothel> well ..
20150916 12:43:34 <xranby_f22> the stacktrace i see when loading gluegen-rt.so looks quite identical to this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22389406/can-32-bit-linux-2-6-executables-run-reliably-on-linux-3-2-machines
20150916 12:43:48 <xranby_f22> terminating with a SIGFPE
20150916 12:44:08 <sgothel> we could try to replace the offending call .. hmm
20150916 12:44:23 <sgothel> iff that is a big issue for some (I doubt)
20150916 12:44:57 <xranby_f22> not a big issue, however i did a retro computing test run to see how well the current release of jogamp work on 2007 and 2008 devices
20150916 12:45:07 <sgothel> i.e. we shall be compatible w/ last 'long term support' distri - done
20150916 12:45:43 <sgothel> sure, if its a small hack .. good, otherwise .. we can note this incompatibility, also good
20150916 12:46:21 <sgothel> LTS is about .. err ... 4-5 years ?
20150916 12:48:00 <xranby_f22> ubuntu 5 years while redhat have 10 year suppor cycle
20150916 12:48:17 <xranby_f22> http://linuxlifecycle.com/
20150916 12:48:24 <xranby_f22> suse 10 years
20150916 12:49:19 <xranby_f22> debian 5 years
20150916 12:49:44 <sgothel> sure .. that edge is a stair .. i.e. Ubuntu/Debian just got reset
20150916 12:50:03 <sgothel> stairs .. duh
20150916 12:50:35 <sgothel> http://linuxlifecycle.com/ - thanks!
20150916 12:50:47 <sgothel> yup, we should ensure we are compatible w/ the latest LTS
20150916 12:52:14 <sgothel> afaik we are: Ubuntu >= 12.04, Debian >= 7, RHEL >= 7, SUSE >= 11 (?)
20150916 12:52:48 <xranby_f22> ofc, if we do support things older then it is a bonus
20150916 12:52:53 <xranby_f22> such as windows xp
20150916 12:52:54 <xranby_f22> etc
20150916 12:59:16 <sgothel> zfs: raidz3 w/ 7 disks. comments, hints, experience?
20150916 12:59:54 <sgothel> just got pcie controller for home server .. to swap my current NAS stuff
20150916 13:00:41 <sgothel> raidz3 = raid5/6 w/ 3 parity disks
20150916 13:00:43 * xranby_f22 tried to do raid years ago,, never got it to survide an unplug a cable and plug the cable back test
20150916 13:00:56 <sgothel> (zfs of course)
20150916 13:03:26 <xranby_f22> https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/643826035947995136/photo/1 - There is never a legitimate right to rule, so government and political authority never actually exist.
20150916 13:05:51 <sgothel> tsts .. slowly Europeans learn that there is no such thing as democracy as they were being taught, but simply a cover up for the people to continue what was always working .. minority leadership, dictatorship .. the usual stuff :-/
20150916 13:06:56 <sgothel> it is like when they removed slavery .. or ended 'bondslave' / 'serfs' here in Europe ..
20150916 13:07:49 <sgothel> running after the little money while controlling its flow .. is the best sheeple management :)
20150916 13:08:25 <sgothel> Switzerland .. yes, they have democracy
20150916 13:11:40 <sgothel> After the failure in Greece .. (their left party failed to install law and process as advertised, fa[u]lted to EU) .. lets see *how* UK's new Labor party dude gets trashed with their *not so mainstream* ideas .. right. Spain .. etc etc. They are all afraid to change the course of the running train ..
20150916 13:12:58 <sgothel> ^^ don't complain, @Xerxes started it :)
20150916 13:13:10 <elect> :D
20150916 13:13:38 <elect> Eclesia, battery charged for another year now :p
20150916 13:13:47 <sgothel> @Elect: How is Italy going btw? You got that humorist still as MP?
20150916 13:14:00 <sgothel> *which is a great idea .. *
20150916 13:14:02 <elect> MP?
20150916 13:14:14 <sgothel> minister president
20150916 13:14:23 <elect> yep
20150916 13:14:25 <elect> unfortunately
20150916 13:14:29 <sgothel> oh
20150916 13:14:41 <xranby_f22> sgothel: i am horrified that UK's primeminiter calls the opposition a national security threat
20150916 13:14:44 <sgothel> he is not breaking out of the chains of the *mainstream* ?
20150916 13:14:50 <elect> at all
20150916 13:14:59 <sgothel> @Xerxes: They already did .. at least here in Germany
20150916 13:15:06 <elect> he should have spoken at that time and token the part of Greece
20150916 13:15:29 <elect> he stayed silent and obey to the failing troika politic
20150916 13:15:30 <sgothel> the party once called *Socialist Party [D]Germany'
20150916 13:15:40 <sgothel> ah .. so another failure
20150916 13:15:47 <elect> look
20150916 13:15:53 <sgothel> yeah, those leaders should not have family to blackmail :-/
20150916 13:16:06 <sgothel> a fearless leader :)
20150916 13:16:22 <sgothel> we call for a new good dictator :)
20150916 13:16:35 <sgothel> (kidding(
20150916 13:16:44 <elect> just the other day I read in Norwegian a right-government decided to increase taxes for the richest by 1% to support the immigration
20150916 13:16:46 <sgothel> (sort of)
20150916 13:17:02 <sgothel> rotfl
20150916 13:17:07 <sgothel> yeah .. don't get me started
20150916 13:17:12 <elect> in italy a *supposed-to-be-left* government increase the taxes on the first house to save banks
20150916 13:17:17 <elect> find the differences
20150916 13:17:52 <sgothel> helping refugees, save their lives: good
20150916 13:18:31 <sgothel> but what is going on right now, started by the wars .. and Germany telling .. *come here* is utter bullshit
20150916 13:18:55 <elect> this is a double-edge sword
20150916 13:19:08 <sgothel> so Germany might have thought .. hey, lets offset our bad new born statistics a bit ..
20150916 13:19:15 <sgothel> and then close the borders again
20150916 13:19:33 <elect> well, you should know that there are many part in the play right now
20150916 13:19:44 <sgothel> more cruel than what Australia does .. which has no more sunken ships at their coast
20150916 13:19:57 <sgothel> yup
20150916 13:20:17 <elect> by a business point of view, refugees and immigrants in generals are very welcome
20150916 13:20:20 <sgothel> and ofc .. you cannot have all the people move to your country .. who 'likes to have a better life' ..
20150916 13:20:46 <elect> coz they have very low expectations in term of salary and they are not really aware about working rights and so on
20150916 13:21:04 <sgothel> to suppress wages as well :) in USA for example, more new H1B than native new jobs .. tada .. high unemployment
20150916 13:21:07 <elect> so the business class kind of tollerate that
20150916 13:21:16 <sgothel> yup
20150916 13:21:19 <elect> because it means more concurrency on the salary level
20150916 13:21:29 <sgothel> just a good measure to lower the bar
20150916 13:21:29 <elect> -> toward the bottom
20150916 13:21:55 <sgothel> totally not about helping people .. oh well
20150916 13:22:25 <elect> I read another article that was claiming this: what we see nowadays is nothing compare what is expecting us
20150916 13:22:34 <sgothel> so thats was probably all in the known when we bombed Libya and helped starving Syria ..
20150916 13:22:43 <elect> exactly
20150916 13:23:02 <elect> our "ally" USA should also take part of the refugees
20150916 13:23:06 <sgothel> and Gadaffi, Assad .. they all told us so ..
20150916 13:23:08 <elect> in theory
20150916 13:23:39 <elect> before "we" started all this "new colonizations" isis and company didnt exist
20150916 13:23:41 <sgothel> so the show just has started .. lets see how many 'created incidents' we will have here
20150916 13:23:58 <sgothel> sure .. same thing as Al Quaida .. same thing
20150916 13:24:04 <elect> anyway, the numbers today are very low
20150916 13:24:05 <sgothel> see 'Charlie Wilson's war'
20150916 13:24:27 <elect> but we perceive it like a wave because of the media and because we are basically unprepared for this
20150916 13:24:29 <sgothel> George Friedman, 'Europe - Destined for Conflict'
20150916 13:24:35 <elect> yep
20150916 13:24:37 <sgothel> we know that one ..
20150916 13:24:49 <sgothel> they don't want us to be strong here, hell no :)
20150916 13:24:58 <elect> if you look at the numbers, since the begin of the year, Europe saw incoming about a million of people
20150916 13:25:09 <sgothel> China starts trading oil in RMB soon ..
20150916 13:25:20 <xranby_f22> i do not feel sorry for bringing up that photo.. and general idea that people should behave well towards each other
20150916 13:25:25 <elect> and here in Europe we are more than 500 milions, this means roughly 1 over 500 people
20150916 13:25:45 <elect> so by a rational point of view, there isn't really an invasion
20150916 13:25:55 <xranby_f22> hence people should not do bad things by proxy
20150916 13:26:04 <elect> but the problem is that the people dont get split equally
20150916 13:26:07 <sgothel> *well towards each other* <- I concur
20150916 13:26:12 <elect> and then we have this feeling
20150916 13:26:23 <elect> but the real problem will be in the future years
20150916 13:26:49 <sgothel> problem is .. we have boundaries and limits, a society does *NOT* work in huge scale, there are some scientific papers about it
20150916 13:26:55 <elect> when the missing of water and food will *force* millions of people from the Africa to emigrate
20150916 13:27:03 <sgothel> i.e. in small scale, game theory tells us .. we behave well
20150916 13:27:03 <elect> then it will be a real problem
20150916 13:27:22 <sgothel> and India - yes
20150916 13:27:40 <elect> I guess it may work if the society is scalable, + or - like a software
20150916 13:27:44 <sgothel> hence we need to deliver them all the stuff to be able to survive
20150916 13:27:45 <elect> with a hierarchy
20150916 13:27:58 <sgothel> better: they shall do it .. we help
20150916 13:28:03 <sgothel> like what we do here :)
20150916 13:28:07 <elect> exactly
20150916 13:28:19 <sgothel> so .. how are your bugs going? :)
20150916 13:28:27 <sgothel> what a roundtrip .. :)
20150916 13:29:12 <sgothel> @Xerxes: yeah .. that Bug 1211 condition-wait code review was quite frustrating
20150916 13:29:23 <xranby_f22> happy to file it
20150916 13:29:25 <sgothel> i.e. realize your behavior/code was wrong all the time .. sort of :)
20150916 13:29:26 <elect> we should do many things in parallel, stopping destabilize country to get their energetic resources (see libia, iraq and afganistahn), stop selling weapons (Italy is the european n1, Germany n3), starting teach them how to be "sustenable"
20150916 13:29:46 <xranby_f22> jogamp is then better than ever after the review
20150916 13:29:54 <elect> althought we are the first not being sustenable..
20150916 13:30:19 <sgothel> I guess .. we always need the others .. for sustainability these days
20150916 13:30:23 <elect> the world is gonna in a bad direction, I dont see anything good in the long term
20150916 13:30:25 <sgothel> system is too big
20150916 13:30:43 <sgothel> think of fusion power plants .. etc
20150916 13:30:49 <sgothel> tidal power plants ..
20150916 13:30:56 <xranby_f22> today i have learned to listen and preach to other to listen to small fragile ideas
20150916 13:30:58 <elect> and if you look how much big is the universe, how much hard is to find a planet like our you end up how much stupid we are
20150916 13:31:09 <xranby_f22> it takes no effort to squash a new idea
20150916 13:31:20 <xranby_f22> it takes effort to listen to a new idea
20150916 13:31:54 <xranby_f22> hence, do take time to listen if someone have a new idea
20150916 13:31:58 <sgothel> well, usually if one starts to destroy credibility of a 'new guy', I always get curious :) The Barbara Streisand effect :)
20150916 13:32:08 <sgothel> so .. it doesn't work here for me :)
20150916 13:32:24 * xranby_f22 has to look up The Barbara Streisand effect
20150916 13:32:25 <sgothel> yes .. and not everybody takes the effort and research
20150916 13:32:41 <elect> I forgot to say, accepting refugees is a good start, but if you fail integrating them, you will end up only by pushing razismus in the people
20150916 13:32:49 <elect> this is more or less what happens in italy
20150916 13:32:59 <xranby_f22> it is easy to be afraid
20150916 13:33:06 <xranby_f22> takes no effort
20150916 13:33:10 <sgothel> those are not refugees of war, but they want to make money (Tunesia, etc)
20150916 13:33:17 <xranby_f22> it takes effort to have courage
20150916 13:33:22 <sgothel> and those are very agressive ..
20150916 13:33:24 <elect> yeah, right
20150916 13:33:34 <elect> we should differentiate
20150916 13:33:49 <sgothel> the new German ones .. they also come from a save place ..
20150916 13:33:56 <sgothel> IMHO: You have to fly them in .. simple as that
20150916 13:34:40 <elect> here in Hamburg they put a lot of them in tends, but with the incoming winter they have to find an alternative as soon as possible
20150916 13:35:02 <sgothel> yup, we will get new neighbors here as well
20150916 13:35:35 <sgothel> friends already have those new friends, a few well educated ones, not war refugees .. really :)
20150916 13:35:46 <sgothel> but .. well, thats the ticket baby :)
20150916 13:35:51 <elect> yep
20150916 13:35:57 <sgothel> and I understand that ofc ..
20150916 13:36:19 <sgothel> which doesn't mean its good to starve another countries intelligence ..
20150916 13:36:40 <sgothel> i.e. those are needed there more than here
20150916 13:39:56 <xranby_f22> http://www.refugees-welcome.net <- idea, solution done by ordinary people
20150916 13:40:13 <xranby_f22> while politicans debate for weeks
20150916 13:41:34 <sgothel> IMHO the debate and delay is more about the lack of welcome and many concerns. If they want something fast, they usually are (-> tax, etc).
20150916 13:42:15 <sgothel> but finding the right spot .. is quite hard, i.e. not to change the demographics in little cities etc
20150916 13:42:24 <sgothel> crime ..
20150916 13:42:31 <sgothel> and crime is a huge issue
20150916 13:42:52 <sgothel> as stated by refugees themselves quite often
20150916 13:43:34 <sgothel> no perspective, no work .. but having the pressure of earning money to send home (-> yes, not war refuges .. etc)
20150916 13:43:42 <sgothel> so then .. the choice is: crime
20150916 13:44:18 <sgothel> friend of ours tries to give them jobs .. where unemployment is Bremerhaven is already like > 10%
20150916 13:44:23 <sgothel> good luck
20150916 13:44:29 <elect> it is somehow normal
20150916 13:45:01 <elect> I mean as consequence
20150916 13:45:03 <sgothel> in short: you have to give them a perspective if you *invite them*, and a *very quick* asylum processing time
20150916 13:45:15 <xranby_f22> in sweden jobs may be available however you cant get then unless you have a swedish id number and that process takes more time than nessecery
20150916 13:45:59 <sgothel> and since many are not there and just happy to be alive, b/c their life was not threatened .. they are frustrated, b/c many came for the money
20150916 13:46:08 <sgothel> so .. housing and food is not enough
20150916 13:46:30 <sgothel> then .. the like ~ 70% men only composition of folks .. quite funny IMHO
20150916 13:46:44 <sgothel> i.e. I would expect families to arrive .. as a majority
20150916 13:47:11 <xranby_f22> one analysis is that women return when they are refused at the border
20150916 13:47:14 <sgothel> yeah .. I have a not so clear view of all of this
20150916 13:47:43 <sgothel> yeah right - here they say: men gets family later .. lol
20150916 13:48:00 <sgothel> while sitting and waiting in a life threatening situation -> ofc not
20150916 13:48:42 <sgothel> nope. many are sponsored by their family to go to europe and make some money, get a better life. maybe get family later on ..
20150916 13:48:52 <sgothel> usually those are not yet married .. but some even are
20150916 13:49:03 <elect> I read many pretend to be syrian to be identified as refugee
20150916 13:49:13 <sgothel> in short: this is sort of a war
20150916 13:49:35 <sgothel> or better: fight for a better life
20150916 13:50:07 <sgothel> I probably would do the same, i.e. invade Sweden if they start to fuck me up :)
20150916 13:50:18 <xranby_f22> you are welcome
20150916 13:50:26 <elect> :D
20150916 13:50:27 <sgothel> hehe
20150916 13:50:46 <sgothel> i.e.: we are not free of guilt here .. the problem
20150916 13:50:50 <elect> I dont disturb a lot, xranby_f22, I promise ^^
20150916 13:50:52 <xranby_f22> we have large woods to settle in
20150916 13:51:46 <sgothel> yeah, I guess that way, many would not even like to come .. here is an axe .. go one :)
20150916 13:51:47 <xranby_f22> and people in sweden have just started to realise that maybe the economy boom seen during the last 50 years actually was funded by arms deals
20150916 13:52:10 <xranby_f22> thus people are becomming a bit more humble
20150916 13:52:20 <sgothel> I actually like that: get your own lawn .. and build your own house
20150916 13:52:34 <xranby_f22> example, sweden made a fortune selling wood to the english empire, when they built boats
20150916 13:52:43 <sgothel> oh well ..
20150916 13:52:48 <sgothel> yes, we are guilty
20150916 13:52:50 <xranby_f22> sweden made a fortune selling iron ore during the last two wars
20150916 13:53:06 <xranby_f22> that funded the whole swedish wellfare
20150916 13:53:28 <elect> ah, I didnt know that
20150916 13:53:30 <sgothel> but now we need something sustainable, and IMHO .. that won't work when promising those people an easy life in our countries, where they are actually needed to help rebuilding theirs ..
20150916 13:53:56 <sgothel> so we need some sort of: COOPERATION .. IMHO
20150916 13:54:17 <xranby_f22> we soudl start by allowing people to help a neighbour build a house
20150916 13:54:29 <xranby_f22> it is now forbidden
20150916 13:54:47 <xranby_f22> before people of a village helped each others to build a new home for the new arrivals
20150916 13:54:52 <sgothel> to help making their own country great and build a house - stop bombing might be a requirement here :)
20150916 13:55:04 <xranby_f22> yes sounds like a good plan
20150916 13:55:26 <xranby_f22> weapon export must stop
20150916 13:55:30 <xranby_f22> it is not sustainable
20150916 13:55:59 <sgothel> current cycle: build up, destroy and repeat
20150916 13:56:11 <sgothel> our son plays this w/ us already :)
20150916 13:56:21 <xranby_f22> and dont forget to allow your banks to "invest" by putting debt during the build up
20150916 13:56:24 <sgothel> seems economy didn't grow out of that
20150916 13:57:01 <sgothel> debt == money
20150916 14:37:20 * doev (~doev@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150916 15:34:27 <sgothel> OT: 'war probability' ~ boy-count/girl-count ? (~ proportional)
20150916 15:47:23 <sgothel> http://thesaker.is/a-russian-syrian-volunteer-talks-about-his-experience-in-the-shabiha-pro-assad-paramilitary/
20150916 15:48:01 <sgothel> "At first, my family sympathized with the protesters. But then it became obvious that the hardliners among the secular opposition work in the interests of Turkey and the Arab monarchies. Plus the course for Islamization was visible early on, and that was a concern."
20150916 15:48:22 <sgothel> *old news*
20150916 15:50:08 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150916 15:53:13 * elect (~GBarbieri@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20150916 16:09:51 * doev (~doev@anon) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20150916 16:24:05 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1219 .. Windows 10 .. Cannot determine 'executable temp base directory'
20150916 16:24:10 <sgothel> anybody can confirm / test ?
20150916 16:24:24 <sgothel> installing/updating one win8 box -> win10 now ..
20150916 16:24:37 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150916 16:32:24 * doev (~doev@anon) has joined #jogamp
20150916 16:33:26 * doev (~doev@anon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20150916 17:54:26 * Eclesia (~eclesia@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150916 18:24:13 <sgothel> win10: Use customized settings: Opt-Out .. oh dear, 'sending typing and inking to MS ...'
20150916 18:36:00 <sgothel> win10: peer to peer bot for updates .. OMFG
20150916 18:36:48 <sgothel> (from/to PCs on the internet ... - LAN is fine though)
20150916 18:39:48 <xranby_f22> http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229
20150916 18:39:59 <xranby_f22> sgothel: yes have you found them all?
20150916 18:40:27 <xranby_f22> windwos 10 eats peoples bandwith for lunch
20150916 18:41:15 <xranby_f22> microsoft pre-download windows 10 to windows 7 users as well.. i had fun trying to understand why the office internet suddenly became slow
20150916 18:42:28 <xranby_f22> every article i read somehow try to smooth talk the issue , it is disgusting
20150916 18:43:06 <sgothel> yeah .. some reg-key to disable the dl'ed .. well, too late for our jenkins nodes :)
20150916 18:43:11 <sgothel> the latter stay win7 ofc ..
20150916 18:43:23 <sgothel> now configuring .. opt-out .. testing w/ a win10 box
20150916 18:43:33 <sgothel> UI looks great though :)
20150916 18:43:55 <sgothel> but all the other privacy violations .. yikes
20150916 18:44:50 <sgothel> by instinct I found two setting (privacy and update-advanced-settings) .. lets see what else is in the box .. surprise! :)
20150916 18:45:21 <xranby_f22> i bet two years down the road, people will get an update that changes the settings to default again or remove them completely
20150916 18:46:21 <xranby_f22> and microsoft would say.. well you had the option not to update... never mind.. ha because you cant opt out of updates with windows 10
20150916 18:53:31 <xranby_f22> http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/08/31/mac-driver/ <- nvidia releases opengl drivers for mac os x
20150916 18:54:33 <xranby_f22> thus suddenly you can update your gpu on a mac
20150916 18:55:09 <xranby_f22> and get an uptodate driver on a mac
20150916 18:55:23 <sgothel> win10: Advanced System Settings -> Remote -> Allow Remote Assistance OFF (I know, win7/8 had this as well)
20150916 18:55:39 <sgothel> funny .. since OSX has their own GL impl. layer
20150916 18:56:04 <sgothel> so .. a more tight cooperation .. or 'let them do the work and safe more money' :)
20150916 19:02:47 <sgothel> win10: 'microsoft edge' browser: no java applets / plugin
20150916 19:07:04 <sgothel> win10: you turn off 'cortana' but it runs as a process ..
20150916 19:08:00 <sgothel> win10: jogamp is working here
20150916 19:08:52 <sgothel> win10 + firefox 40.0.3: GLMediaPlayerImpl crashes .. found ffmpeg but incomplete ..
20150916 19:15:38 <xranby_f22> where on the system did it find this copy of ffmpeg?
20150916 19:20:39 <sgothel> I assume within firefox .. hmm
20150916 19:20:49 <sgothel> need to check .. will take a little while
20150916 19:27:31 <sgothel> "java.lang.RuntimeException: FFMPEG Tool library incomplete: [ avutil false, avformat false, avcodec false]"
20150916 19:27:38 <sgothel> false alarm .. 'just' a regression :)
20150916 19:28:45 <sgothel> yup .. same on any non ffmpeg version
20150916 19:28:59 <sgothel> exception is passed through .. ahem :-/
20150916 19:55:01 <sgothel> http://forum.jogamp.org/Test-Experience-Jogamp-on-Windows-10-td4035326.html
20150916 20:15:41 <xranby_f22> sgothel: when i read the forum post http://forum.jogamp.org/Caught-Exception-while-retrieving-executable-temp-base-directory-tp4035267p4035304.html
20150916 20:15:41 <xranby_f22> i see
20150916 20:15:41 <xranby_f22> java.security.cert.CertificateParsingException: no more data allowed for version 1 certificate
20150916 20:15:41 <xranby_f22> at sun.security.x509.X509CertInfo.parse(Unknown Source)
20150916 20:16:09 <xranby_f22> hence the applet must have reverted to sandbox?
20150916 20:16:26 <sgothel> yeah .. didn't know what that means .. since it was no more mentioned
20150916 20:17:06 <sgothel> probably some odd installation issue of that reporter? .. I 'hope' so
20150916 20:18:47 <xranby_f22> the user reports the issue when running with his application
20150916 20:19:00 <xranby_f22> i can find his applications source at https://www.insane.dees.ufmg.br/websvn/listing.php?repname=insane&path=%2Finsane%2Ftrunk%2Fbr.ufmg.dees.insane.ui.rich.geoJOGL%2F&rev=1230&peg=1241#ab8f3ac7f7eb1b1517f5ca17dbd727402
20150916 20:19:26 <sgothel> ah .. hmm .. maybe a simple cert issue then?
20150916 20:19:49 <xranby_f22> my guess is that he have not signed his jars
20150916 20:19:52 <sgothel> maybe you can reply to the Bug .. and close it then .. me fixing the GLMediaPlayer regression
20150916 20:20:12 <sgothel> puhh .. well, at least tested win10 once :)
20150916 20:21:33 * xranby_f22 is not versed in the new signing busniess.. i only deploy using icedtea-web that still allow self signed certificates :/
20150916 20:21:55 <xranby_f22> however <- i like that phrase
20150916 20:22:03 <xranby_f22> however i can reply to the post
20150916 20:22:39 <sgothel> and link to our Bug entry .. thank you!
20150916 20:23:16 <sgothel> so its past 4pm in NY .. what happened?
20150916 20:23:41 <sgothel> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-16/biggest-double-top-ever ?
20150916 20:23:59 <sgothel> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-16/fed-stocks-squeezed-black-monday-highs-crude-rips-bonds-dip ?
20150916 20:24:53 <xranby_f22> do these Gears jnlp liks still work? -> http://jogamp.org/jogl-demos/www/
20150916 20:25:10 <sgothel> haven't tested .. they should
20150916 20:25:20 <xranby_f22> sgothel: can you check if you can glick on the gears image , it does not work for me :/
20150916 20:25:25 <xranby_f22> this was the test the user used
20150916 20:25:53 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/deployment/archive/master/gluegen_888-joal_614-jogl_1438-jocl_1083-signed/jogl-demos/Gears.jnlp ..
20150916 20:25:58 <xranby_f22> net.sourceforge.jnlp.LaunchException: Fatal: Initialization Error: Could not initialize application. The application has not been initialized, for more information execute javaws from the command line.
20150916 20:25:58 <xranby_f22> at net.sourceforge.jnlp.Launcher.createApplication(Launcher.java:813)
20150916 20:25:58 <xranby_f22> at net.sourceforge.jnlp.Launcher.launchApplication(Launcher.java:532)
20150916 20:25:58 <xranby_f22> at net.sourceforge.jnlp.Launcher$TgThread.run(Launcher.java:936)
20150916 20:25:58 <xranby_f22> Caused by: net.sourceforge.jnlp.LaunchException: The 'permissions' attribute is 'sandbox' and the applet is signed. This is fatal.
20150916 20:25:58 <xranby_f22> at net.sourceforge.jnlp.runtime.ManifestAttributesChecker.checkPermissionsAttribute(ManifestAttributesChecker.java:298)
20150916 20:25:59 <xranby_f22> at net.sourceforge.jnlp.runtime.ManifestAttributesChecker.checkAll(ManifestAttributesChecker.java:114)
20150916 20:25:59 <xranby_f22> at net.sourceforge.jnlp.runtime.JNLPClassLoader.initializeResources(JNLPClassLoader.java:777)
20150916 20:26:07 <sgothel> works on GNU/Linux
20150916 20:26:17 <xranby_f22> fails on my fedora 22 system :/
20150916 20:26:21 <sgothel> (w/ Oracle ..)
20150916 20:26:31 <xranby_f22> (w/ IcedTea)
20150916 20:26:51 <xranby_f22> why did they decide to utterly destroy this technology in a year?
20150916 20:26:53 <sgothel> http://jogamp.org/deployment/jogamp-current/jogl-demos/Gears.jnlp <- crashed w/ Oracle
20150916 20:27:36 <xranby_f22> http://jogamp.org/deployment/jogamp-current/jogl-demos/Gears.jnlp <- above exception with icedtea
20150916 20:27:57 <sgothel> jogamp.opengl.x11.glx.GLX.dispatch_glXMakeContextCurrent0 .. our NV exception though ..
20150916 20:28:09 <sgothel> try http://jogamp.org/deployment/archive/master/gluegen_888-joal_614-jogl_1438-jocl_1083-signed/jogl-demos/Gears.jnlp
20150916 20:28:58 <xranby_f22> Caused by: net.sourceforge.jnlp.LaunchException: The 'permissions' attribute is 'sandbox' and the applet is signed. This is fatal.
20150916 20:29:17 <sgothel> uh
20150916 20:29:35 <sgothel> IMHO a bug in IcedTea ..
20150916 20:29:36 <xranby_f22> it appears icedtea.-web and oracle have different views of securiity
20150916 20:29:41 <sgothel> yeah
20150916 20:29:57 <xranby_f22> icedtea web allow all unsigned -> sandbox OR all signed
20150916 20:29:59 <sgothel> but why not allowing to sign something and only requesting sandbox?
20150916 20:30:08 <sgothel> the other way around is an issue .. but here? nope
20150916 20:30:12 <xranby_f22> well lets ask the icedtea-web amintainer
20150916 20:30:30 <sgothel> considering: even self-signed is allowed
20150916 20:31:38 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1219#c6
20150916 20:33:02 <sgothel> simply has not any exec temp folder :-/
20150916 20:36:27 <xranby_f22> why do exec change from true to false?
20150916 20:36:48 <xranby_f22> OUtil.testDirImpl(tempX1): <C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\Temp>, create true, exec true: false
20150916 20:37:07 <xranby_f22> then a bit down the log
20150916 20:37:08 <xranby_f22> IOUtil.testDirImpl(temp01): <C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\Temp>, create true, exec false: true
20150916 20:38:58 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1219#c7
20150916 20:39:16 <sgothel> BTW .. how can we setup bugzilla to make the comment-box much more wide ?
20150916 20:39:25 <sgothel> I hate these wrapping lines ..
20150916 20:39:31 <sgothel> well .. yes .. weird
20150916 20:40:04 * monsieur_max (~maxime@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150916 20:40:09 <sgothel> yes, i.e. C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\Temp is writable bit not executable
20150916 20:40:41 <sgothel> I know .. my 'odd debug messages' .. just to keep in bread and butter :)
20150916 20:41:14 <sgothel> and his fallback dll loading from file failed as well ..
20150916 20:41:22 <sgothel> UnsatisfiedLinkError .. weird
20150916 20:41:57 <sgothel> Bugzilla: could not find a 'skin' to fix the comment box width ..
20150916 20:42:07 <sgothel> even though .. you can resize when editing
20150916 20:42:25 <sgothel> where is the FLOATING layout for bugzilla? .. whining ..
20150916 20:43:03 <xranby_f22> sgothel: have you tested using a non administrator windows user account?
20150916 20:43:22 <xranby_f22> like create a second user and see if that user can access the temp folder
20150916 20:43:43 <sgothel> always: user is 'jogamp' on my test machine, an ordinary one
20150916 20:44:00 <sgothel> but I do know enterprise setups .. where all temps are non-exec
20150916 20:47:07 <sgothel> https://jogamp.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015#c2 <- describes how-to setup a no-exec folder :)
20150916 21:44:09 <xranby_f22> the users university have worked on this INSANE - Interactive Structural Analysis Environment since 2003! 12 years
20150916 21:48:30 <xranby_f22> i will not write a forum reply, the no executable temp dir theory looks rock solid at the moment
20150916 21:53:45 <sgothel> ay .. so .. this is a complete no go then for such machine setup .. well
20150916 21:54:19 <sgothel> i.e. platform needs exec permission to load native libraries
20150916 21:54:43 <sgothel> lets see how he/she responds
20150916 22:19:47 <xranby_f22> quick recap about legal routes and workaround if you are in need: legal routes : 1. quotation (you can get a quoation place at UNHCR - The UN Refugee Agency) 2. asylum (you have to cross borders and get to the country you want to stay in first) 3. humanitarian visum at an embassy (all embassys CAN issue one but they never say it publically) 4. seek family reunion at an embassy (require that one of your family members has
20150916 22:22:13 <xranby_f22> + IANAL
20150916 22:24:16 <sgothel> (3) <- fly them in directly while approving their status (Geneva conventions) .. then they can immediately settle .. if this is their wish, but sure, they must match the criterias
20150916 22:24:43 <sgothel> this is similar w/ 'quota refugees'
20150916 22:25:01 <sgothel> but again - this is not the problem w/ Syria .. IMHO
20150916 22:25:41 <sgothel> i.e. most are not matching Geneva conventions criteria .. war, life threatening ..
20150916 22:26:18 <sgothel> and even if .. the mass of immigration may come from Africa .. there was a demographic analysis .. one sec
20150916 22:27:01 <sgothel> [1] http://econimica.blogspot.de/2015/09/secular-sea-change-depopulation-viewed.html
20150916 22:27:34 <sgothel> [2] http://econimica.blogspot.de/2015/08/growth-now-and-in-2030forget-india-its.html
20150916 22:27:51 <sgothel> [2] is the key analysis here .. i.e. economic emigration threat
20150916 22:28:09 <sgothel> *immigration*
20150916 22:29:08 <sgothel> but all those estimations of popular growth .. well .. maybe all bullshit, since a population would adapt if kept untouched IMHO
20150916 22:29:30 <sgothel> i.e. we simply would have more children .. if our populus decreases
20150916 22:30:04 <sgothel> so yes, this discussion seems to be more about demographics ..
20150916 22:30:34 <sgothel> back to Syria .. well, the *real* Syrians would love to have their own home in Syria, since they are proud of themselves
20150916 22:31:21 <sgothel> seems like all the foreign intervention and terrorists simply caused too much havoc .. :-/
20150916 22:31:32 <sgothel> yes, Europe also sanctioned Syria
20150916 22:32:14 <sgothel> IMHO: for the economic class of immigrants, we simply need quotas and proper rules
20150916 22:33:34 <sgothel> now .. it seems .. those refugees rejected at Hungary .. will walk through minefields .. horrible idea and surely really not necessary
20150916 22:34:01 <sgothel> (croatia bosnia .. etc)
20150916 22:35:59 <sgothel> "family reunion" of 1st grade (wife, children) is always possible after being granted asylum
20150916 22:36:41 <sgothel> fun fact: you can also invite people personally while pledging for them (money + security)
20150916 22:37:05 <xranby_f22> not possible if the family members have asked for asylum in different countries
20150916 22:37:19 <sgothel> in Germany .. that might be about .. 70k EUR (per year or so)
20150916 22:37:24 <xranby_f22> and not possible if the family cant produce proof that they are family
20150916 22:37:34 <sgothel> oh well .. come on ..
20150916 22:37:47 <sgothel> I know .. they simply believe what they say (in Germany at least)
20150916 22:37:54 <sgothel> since none has papers .. usually
20150916 22:38:01 <sgothel> or doing a genetic test
20150916 22:39:14 <sgothel> most of the war refugees are in surrounding countries (Turkey, Lebanon, ..) per 100k's .. if not even millions
20150916 22:39:25 <sgothel> waiting for a return
20150916 22:39:55 <sgothel> and the UN fails to properly pay the camps for support ..
20150916 22:40:10 <sgothel> and UN members fail here as well ..
20150916 22:40:45 <xranby_f22> Sweden has considers the situation to not resolve by itself and therefore grant all Syrians permannt asylum if they manage to get to sweden
20150916 22:41:02 <xranby_f22> germany only give 2 year temorary asylum
20150916 22:41:15 <sgothel> but IMHO that is the problem, i.e. 'who ever gets here'
20150916 22:41:41 <sgothel> this drags them here for whatever reason .. while doing dangerous things
20150916 22:41:49 <sgothel> threatening their own life
20150916 22:41:49 <xranby_f22> yes.. at the same time ericsson makes money installing heat seaking cameras at the bulgarian border
20150916 22:42:22 <sgothel> properly IMHO: pick them up if you are committed - but better support the real refuge camps ON SITE
20150916 22:42:28 <xranby_f22> and i bet someone makes a busniess selling all the razor barbwire
20150916 22:42:44 <sgothel> and fucking resolve the issue: i.e. pressing the US and work w/ Syria!
20150916 22:43:14 <sgothel> those are ordered by China, a German producer was already refusing selling to Hungary
20150916 22:43:47 <sgothel> but again - this may even help the refugees .. i.e. to stop that stupid idea to suffer and walk across Europe (IMHO)
20150916 22:44:28 <sgothel> ordered *from* China
20150916 22:45:47 <sgothel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wELCDCPsw6M Syria 'in a state of complete war' with terrorism - Assad (FULL INTERVIEW)
20150916 22:49:41 <sgothel> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-16/please-ignore-freudian-slip-pentagon-backtracks-denies-us-special-forces-are-syria
20150916 22:53:44 <xranby_f22> well Assad has to explain why he launches attillery attacks on his own people such as the well known homs offensive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Homs_offensive
20150916 22:54:22 <sgothel> 'Homs' ?
20150916 22:54:47 <sgothel> it was always about Aleppo ..
20150916 22:55:37 <sgothel> and no, who shall answer is the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, .... who payed for terrorist support .. invading Syria, and get the ball kicking
20150916 22:56:49 <sgothel> yes .. Assad mentioned some actions against Syrian uprising .. in the beginning .. i.e. it was harsh maybe, but surely not giving legitimacy to start a proxy war
20150916 22:57:04 <sgothel> the latter pattern .. well, we know it .. Afghanistan, Ukraine ..
20150916 23:01:52 <sgothel> like foreign snipers .. and all that .. a disgusting thing ..
20150916 23:05:51 <sgothel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l44KUQHoVY Understanding the syrian crisis in 5 minutes
20150916 23:07:55 <sgothel> if there would not have been Sauds, US, Europe, Turks .. getting involved - there would be no such crisis .. as simple as that
20150916 23:08:00 <sgothel> IMHO
20150916 23:10:25 <sgothel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPH1JpSVvZI
20150916 23:11:44 <sgothel> https://youtu.be/PPH1JpSVvZI?t=402 Webster Tarpley about Syria .. (also mentions Homs AFAIK)
20150916 23:14:59 <sgothel> weapons from Lybia -> Turkey -> Syria .. thats probably why the US let the diplomat being killed (Benghazi) .. not having an audit of their embassy .. etc
20150916 23:16:28 <sgothel> http://www.voltairenet.org/article176200.html
20150916 23:16:33 <xranby_f22> here is another view of the situation: written in comic form http://yearsoflivingdangerously.tumblr.com/post/128340659028/yearsoflivingdangerously-this
20150916 23:16:37 <sgothel> http://www.rt.com/news/sarin-gas-turkey-al-nusra-021/
20150916 23:17:03 <sgothel> FSA, Al Nusra .. all being 'supported' by the west .. and Sauds .. etc
20150916 23:18:19 <sgothel> I am not so sure about the 'faced imprisonment, torture, and even death'
20150916 23:19:06 <sgothel> then there were babies supposed to be killed by Iraquis .. turned out to be just some candy for the west to support the war, not true
20150916 23:19:37 <sgothel> in short .. 'non intervention policy' seems to work best - plus some cooperation to help, not government toppling
20150916 23:19:49 <xranby_f22> this comic uses a quite different angle .. a climate sparked conflict, that the climate caused the conflict to be larger than analysts would have expected
20150916 23:19:53 <sgothel> the latter "success" can be seen in Iraq, Lybia, Egypt ..
20150916 23:20:17 <sgothel> sublime messages .. repeated .. then you believe it
20150916 23:21:47 <sgothel> well .. a sovereign country has been attacked .. that is definitely a proven UN violation - and surely not for the good of the people living there ..
20150916 23:22:06 <sgothel> and cont. terror support keeps the fire on ..
20150916 23:22:20 <sgothel> the goal for destabilization ..
20150916 23:22:49 <sgothel> close the borders .. offer them all to 'go home' .. and if not .. well
20150916 23:23:43 <sgothel> climate change .. well, happens .. thats why we are in Europe probably .. i.e. Africa became a bit hot :)
20150916 23:23:59 <sgothel> after India separated from the continent
20150916 23:24:14 <sgothel> next stage? who knows
20150916 23:27:30 <xranby_f22> when climate change happens people cant simly sit and watch saying, to bad your country is in flames, go back where you came from
20150916 23:28:13 <sgothel> *they* (TPTB) had a discussion about .. 'what if' the glaciers melt .. result: NOPE, CLOSE BORDERS
20150916 23:28:25 <sgothel> (i.e. if Europe gets very cold .. )
20150916 23:28:37 <sgothel> (end of the warm stream in Atlantic ..)
20150916 23:29:03 <sgothel> i.e. they realized .. they will be overwhelmed and cannot handle it -> ugly
20150916 23:29:18 <sgothel> and since .. nobody took action to prepare .. well
20150916 23:29:43 <xranby_f22> TPTB <- this acronym has many menings which one did you use?
20150916 23:29:43 <sgothel> how can one prepare mass invasion of millions? I dunno .. the problem, but I agree - it will happen some time
20150916 23:29:54 <sgothel> the power that be
20150916 23:30:07 <sgothel> i.e. the folks who really lead all this crap :)
20150916 23:30:24 <xranby_f22> The People to Blame <- another popular phrase
20150916 23:30:44 <sgothel> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_powers_that_be_%28phrase%29
20150916 23:30:57 <sgothel> well .. I guess they are compatible :)
20150916 23:31:13 <sgothel> TPTB is TPTB :)
20150916 23:32:17 <xranby_f22> the problem using TPTB is that the folks who really lead all this crap then point at some imaginary god
20150916 23:32:18 <sgothel> and in my dreams .. it would be so sweet to just be able to be nice w/o getting punished for it, w/o repercussions - call me naive
20150916 23:32:34 <sgothel> hehe
20150916 23:32:38 <sgothel> some sure do
20150916 23:33:03 <sgothel> some others .. not anymore, they hide or are even meeting altogether publicly
20150916 23:33:21 <sgothel> while defining the official policies .. 'so democratic'
20150916 23:33:44 <sgothel> all lined up and aligned
20150916 23:34:13 <xranby_f22> bill de berg has a word to say about it
20150916 23:35:44 <sgothel> yup ..
20150916 23:36:41 <xranby_f22> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4nSjPdT788&feature=youtu.be&t=2m58s
20150916 23:37:46 <xranby_f22> good night
20150916 23:37:48 <sgothel> Xerxes in the music video again :)
20150916 23:37:53 <sgothel> nighty night
20150916 23:38:07 <sgothel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QBeCEiEy7s .. last one for today
20150917 00:14:46 <xranby_f22> - public static void main(String args[]) throws IOException {
20150917 00:14:47 <xranby_f22> + public static void main(final String args[]) throws IOException { <- hmm seen in src/test/com/jogamp/opengl/test/junit/jogl/demos/es2/newt/TestGearsES2NEWT.java
20150917 00:14:52 <xranby_f22> causes: Could not find or load main class com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT
20150917 00:14:59 <xranby_f22> if you try to run it
20150917 00:16:35 <sgothel> works here ..
20150917 00:16:43 <sgothel> the 'final' qualifier does no harm
20150917 00:16:56 <xranby_f22> java -cp jogl/build/jar/jogl-test.jar:jogl/build/jar/jogl-all.jar:gluegen/build/gluegen-rt.jar com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT
20150917 00:16:56 <xranby_f22> Error: Could not find or load main class com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT
20150917 00:17:15 <xranby_f22> something is odd
20150917 00:17:19 <sgothel> indeed
20150917 00:18:22 <xranby_f22> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=816705#p816705 <- i started looking at it because a raspberry pi user reported the same issue
20150917 00:18:31 <xranby_f22> using a command line that worked before
20150917 00:18:37 <sgothel> hmm
20150917 00:18:55 <sgothel> the 'final' probably went in via my Eclipse source cleanup setup ..
20150917 00:19:13 <xranby_f22> i have to cross check if it really is the final
20150917 00:19:16 <xranby_f22> causing the issue
20150917 00:19:26 <xranby_f22> at least it fail to load the class
20150917 00:19:41 <xranby_f22> on my side as well
20150917 00:22:03 <xranby_f22> cd jogamp-all-platforms
20150917 00:22:04 <xranby_f22> java -cp jar/jogl-test.jar:jar/jogl-all.jar:jar/gluegen-rt.jar:/usr/share/java/junit4.jar com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.av.MovieCube - time 400000 -width 1980 -height 1080 -translucent
20150917 00:22:08 <xranby_f22> this work on my side
20150917 00:22:42 <xranby_f22> java -cp jar/jogl-test.jar:jar/jogl-all.jar:jar/gluegen-rt.jar:/usr/share/java/junit4.jar com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT - time 400000 -width 1980 -height 1080 -translucent
20150917 00:22:45 <xranby_f22> does not work
20150917 00:23:15 <xranby_f22> Error: Could not find or load main class com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT
20150917 00:23:21 <sgothel> gluegen/make/lib/junit.jar
20150917 00:23:45 <sgothel> or that one .. jogamp-fat-test.jar
20150917 00:24:19 <sgothel> both include all required junit classes we use and require
20150917 00:26:36 <xranby_f22> java -cp jogamp-fat-test.jar:jogamp-fat.jar com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT - time 400000 -width 1980 -height 1080 -translucent
20150917 00:26:38 <xranby_f22> that worked
20150917 00:29:24 <xranby_f22> java -cp jogamp-fat-test.jar:jar/jogl-all.jar:jar/gluegen-rt.jar com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT - time 400000 -width 1980 -height 1080 -translucent
20150917 00:29:28 <xranby_f22> also worked
20150917 00:31:22 <xranby_f22> still cant get the jogl-test.jar to work even if i use gluegen/make/lib/junit.jar...
20150917 00:31:33 <xranby_f22> for this demo
20150917 00:32:45 <sgothel> gluegen-test-util.jar <- and this one :)
20150917 00:35:04 <xranby_f22> that worked better
20150917 00:35:08 <xranby_f22> java -cp jar/jogl-test.jar:jar/jogl-all.jar:jar/gluegen-rt.jar:jar/gluegen-test-util.jar:../jogamp/gluegen/make/lib/junit.jar com.jogamp.opengl.test.junit.jogl.demos.es2.newt.TestGearsES2NEWT - time 400000 -width 1980 -height 1080 -translucent
20150917 00:35:36 <xranby_f22> i had to add both the gluegen-test-util.jar and the make/lib/junit.jar
20150917 00:35:43 <xranby_f22> thank you
20150917 00:35:56 <xranby_f22> still a bit puzzled but at least have an ansver
20150917 00:39:17 <xranby_f22> thank you
20150917 00:39:47 * xranby_f22 (~familjen@anon) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
20150917 05:05:11 -jogamp- Continue @ http://jogamp.org/log/irc/jogamp_20150917050511.html